Motocam360 Plug n Play ECM

MotoCam360

Member
Turns out you're on the right track. I posted the question to FB as well, and many members chimed in that a "Tune Saver" is required with the TT chip, so that you don't lose the settings.

Looks like this TT chip will be coming up for sale soon since the customer upgraded to our Stage 1 kit, which definitely does not need a "Tune Saver"
 

MotoCam360

Member
Shipped this Stage1 system earlier this week. This system is unique because it features a fuel pressure sensor, which is tied into the E85 fuel line via AN fittings. This package also included the nifty wifi box, to allow the customer to run RealDash on their iOS/Android phones and tablets - no more need to hack up the dash installing gauges:

S Klein ecu sn.jpg
S Klein ecu.jpg

S Klein Stage1 sys anno.jpg
modified dash layout.jpg
 

Poconojoe

Donating Member
Turns out you're on the right track. I posted the question to FB as well, and many members chimed in that a "Tune Saver" is required with the TT chip, so that you don't lose the settings.

Looks like this TT chip will be coming up for sale soon since the customer upgraded to our Stage 1 kit, which definitely does not need a "Tune Saver"
Since the turbo tweet, uses an EEPROM, there should be no reason to require a battery or tune saver.
 
Since the turbo tweet, uses an EEPROM, there should be no reason to require a battery or tune saver.
I was able to look into this some more while at work. I'll assume that you are correct, lets say it is EEPROM. That is where the problem actually lies. EEPROM, will save both the default values, and modified values of the user input. Although the EEPROM is designed to hold both, it is not completely Non-volatile, otherwise you wouldn't be able to erase the modified memory via electrical output/input. In the Literal definition its also not Volatile because it can retain its original/default state.

This does not mean, that pulling or unplugging power, will not alter the settings you have changed. It will, because that is how the firmware is designed. The Turbo tweak chip will save the user input for the settings as long as its connected to a source of power. Once that is removed the applied settings are no longer going to be saved, but the default state of the PROM will be. As I said in the previous post, depending on the chip and the programming, the ROM/PROM/EPROM/EEPROM etc, will act accordingly. That is why it is suggested to export your settings, or save them to some secondary device.

EEPROM is electronically controlled memory. This means, especially in cars, that the pulse of electricity from the battery to your ECU/Chip can cause altered settings to be erased while the default memory block is reverted to its original value.

Which is exactly how your regular/Daily driver ECU works as well. Until, if you can, modify the firmware to change the default values. In the case where you're modifying the default state of the EEPROM, most of the time, you wont be able to unless you have the correct programming tool. IF you do, its usually suggested that you don't modify the default memory anyway, because you will not be able to revert them via that electronic pulse anymore. Instead, they will only revert to the configuration that you have now modified it to.

Finally here is a note, in the troubleshooting instructions from the creator the Turbo Tweak chip, "If the battery or ECM is disconnected, the memory will be erased and your settings will be lost (they will return to the default). I recommend periodically looking at the saved values to make sure they have been retained. Sometimes bad battery cables, a bad starter, bad ignition switch, etc. Can cause the ECM to lose its memory when starting the car. "
 

MotoCam360

Member
I was able to look into this some more while at work. I'll assume that you are correct, lets say it is EEPROM. That is where the problem actually lies. EEPROM, will save both the default values, and modified values of the user input. Although the EEPROM is designed to hold both, it is not completely Non-volatile, otherwise you wouldn't be able to erase the modified memory via electrical output/input. In the Literal definition its also not Volatile because it can retain its original/default state.

This does not mean, that pulling or unplugging power, will not alter the settings you have changed. It will, because that is how the firmware is designed. The Turbo tweak chip will save the user input for the settings as long as its connected to a source of power. Once that is removed the applied settings are no longer going to be saved, but the default state of the PROM will be. As I said in the previous post, depending on the chip and the programming, the ROM/PROM/EPROM/EEPROM etc, will act accordingly. That is why it is suggested to export your settings, or save them to some secondary device.

EEPROM is electronically controlled memory. This means, especially in cars, that the pulse of electricity from the battery to your ECU/Chip can cause altered settings to be erased while the default memory block is reverted to its original value.

Which is exactly how your regular/Daily driver ECU works as well. Until, if you can, modify the firmware to change the default values. In the case where you're modifying the default state of the EEPROM, most of the time, you wont be able to unless you have the correct programming tool. IF you do, its usually suggested that you don't modify the default memory anyway, because you will not be able to revert them via that electronic pulse anymore. Instead, they will only revert to the configuration that you have now modified it to.

Finally here is a note, in the troubleshooting instructions from the creator the Turbo Tweak chip, "If the battery or ECM is disconnected, the memory will be erased and your settings will be lost (they will return to the default). I recommend periodically looking at the saved values to make sure they have been retained. Sometimes bad battery cables, a bad starter, bad ignition switch, etc. Can cause the ECM to lose its memory when starting the car. "
Very good info. I see people recommend TT to new syty owners all the time, but NOBODY ever mentions extra hardware/steps needed to save the tune
 

Poconojoe

Donating Member
Very good info. I see people recommend TT to new syty owners all the time, but NOBODY ever mentions extra hardware/steps needed to save the tune
I guess you never read the instructions. He is talking about the values in the stock ecm, that all ecm's of that era had to relearn. They use to sell and might still sell, a little device, that plugged into your cigarette lighter, that used a 9 volt battery, to retain, your radio and ecm memory. This process, isn't any different, then the procedure, for a Sy/Ty with a stock ecm
 

MotoCam360

Member
bro, I've never purchased or used a TT chip, so I didn't fail to read any instructions. It's clear that a tune saver is needed, but nobody mentions this to new syty owners when they recommend a TT chip is the first purchase needed......kind of an incomplete picture don't you think?
 

RealFastV6

@jb_and_his_coffee
Turns out you're on the right track. I posted the question to FB as well, and many members chimed in that a "Tune Saver" is required with the TT chip, so that you don't lose the settings.

Looks like this TT chip will be coming up for sale soon since the customer upgraded to our Stage 1 kit, which definitely does not need a "Tune Saver"
Why are you talking about a limitation of the stock ecu and pinning it onto the TT chip? It's just a chip. It's really sophisticated chip, but at the end of the day it's still just a chip that relies on the stock ECU's ability to learn and save fuel trims and other tune data.

Your ECU is over 10x the cost of a TT chip, I should hope it doesn't need a tune saver.

If you want to sell your ECU, then sell your ECU on it's merits, but don't make it sound like this has something specifically to do with the TT chip. You sound like a sleazy used car salesman right now. Eric has a great reputation and you're just making an ass of yourself by trying to make it sound like he's somebody baiting and switching people to sell a $49 tune saver.
 
I want to point out, my intention was not to make any of Eric's work look bad, or portray it as poor. I apologize if my explanation came off that way at all. I just wanted to explain my understanding of how the memcal chip functions with the ECU.
 

MotoCam360

Member
Why are you talking about a limitation of the stock ecu and pinning it onto the TT chip? It's just a chip. It's really sophisticated chip, but at the end of the day it's still just a chip that relies on the stock ECU's ability to learn and save fuel trims and other tune data.

Your ECU is over 10x the cost of a TT chip, I should hope it doesn't need a tune saver.

If you want to sell your ECU, then sell your ECU on it's merits, but don't make it sound like this has something specifically to do with the TT chip. You sound like a sleazy used car salesman right now. Eric has a great reputation and you're just making an ass of yourself by trying to make it sound like he's somebody baiting and switching people to sell a $49 tune saver.
What is wrong with your reading skills? I'm not talking about the stock ecu at all. As I clearly stated in this thread, I started this conversation because a real life customer came to us and said he runs the TT chip and it loses it's tune every time he changes his battery. I told him I'd never run the chip myself, but had heard similar stories. The customer bought our Stage 1 and is happily down the road. I was simply trying to confirm the ins and outs of this chip for the next customer that comes around. Nobody here is bashing the TT chip - it's great for what it is. What I am bringing to light is that the chip is highly recommended to new syty owners all the time on FB and NOBODY ever says a thing about a tune saver....why not?
 

RealFastV6

@jb_and_his_coffee
What is wrong with your reading skills? I'm not talking about the stock ecu at all. As I clearly stated in this thread, I started this conversation because a real life customer came to us and said he runs the TT chip and it loses it's tune every time he changes his battery. I told him I'd never run the chip myself, but had heard similar stories. The customer bought our Stage 1 and is happily down the road. I was simply trying to confirm the ins and outs of this chip for the next customer that comes around. Nobody here is bashing the TT chip - it's great for what it is. What I am bringing to light is that the chip is highly recommended to new syty owners all the time on FB and NOBODY ever says a thing about a tune saver....why not?
My reading skills are just fine, and I'm able to read between the lines very clearly also.

The stock ecu loses it's fuel trims every time it loses the battery connection, and yes a self-tuning chip like the TT will lose it's settings also. It'll also lose anything you've set on the chip (except using the dip switches or dials). Again, this isn't unique to the TT chip, this is the factory ECU.

Next time you want to "confirm the ins and outs of the chip for the next customer" you could try putting those killer reading skills to work and read the instructions instead of having some fake conversation about your competition like a used car salesman.

Capture.JPG
 

MotoCam360

Member
There's no lines to read between. As stated previously, we have a customer who had a problem with losing his advanced tune when vehicle battery died. Customer said "vehicle has stock ecu and TT chip - runs good. Battery dies, gets replaced, vehicle won't even start." Customer believes TT chip/stock ecu lost it's tune information and will not run. End of story.

Read what instructions?? - as I said once and I'll say again, I have never purchased or even touched a TT chip. I am simply looking for education so that I speak intelligently to people when they ask for a comparison between the available ecu technologies that are on the market. I guess a person can't ask questions and also be a vendor without being accused of sleazy used car sales tactics - is that it?

I have no reason to speak ill of Eric or TT, as I have spent nearly $1000 with them over the years buying flow matched injectors, fuel pumps, and other goodies and they always treated me great. I simply didn't know how the TT worked, what it's limitations are, or what supporting items are needed or recommended - I guess that's pretty sleazy.......
 

Poconojoe

Donating Member
There's no lines to read between. As stated previously, we have a customer who had a problem with losing his advanced tune when vehicle battery died. Customer said "vehicle has stock ecu and TT chip - runs good. Battery dies, gets replaced, vehicle won't even start." Customer believes TT chip/stock ecu lost it's tune information and will not run. End of story.

Read what instructions?? - as I said once and I'll say again, I have never purchased or even touched a TT chip. I am simply looking for education so that I speak intelligently to people when they ask for a comparison between the available ecu technologies that are on the market. I guess a person can't ask questions and also be a vendor without being accused of sleazy used car sales tactics - is that it?

I have no reason to speak ill of Eric or TT, as I have spent nearly $1000 with them over the years buying flow matched injectors, fuel pumps, and other goodies and they always treated me great. I simply didn't know how the TT worked, what it's limitations are, or what supporting items are needed or recommended - I guess that's pretty sleazy.......
Fine example of the blind leading the unknowing, Eric's TT instructions are on his website. So you had a customer, that had an issue with his electrical system, so you sold him, an ecm that his electrical problem, isn't going effect, so you blame the old ecm and memcal, and don't tell the customer, that he should find the electrical problem, and fix it.. Sounds like a sleazy sales guy to me.
 
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