Freshening up the short block.

[dgoodhue]

I have my top end apart and something looks funny with #4 in terms of oil. I need some advice in terms of freshning up the short block. I am getting laid off in Sept, but I will be able to keep my current income level through side work (but its not permanent solution). Ideally I would like to do a 4 bolt Forged Short block (Campbell Automotive), but unless I get a reasonable paying job with some long term security that won't be happening. So I have plenty of time, but not a lot of money to spend.

I have 50K miles on my motor. I did have detonation problems, so my bearing have probably taken a beating.

The cylinders have a a few scratch on some of them, but when I run my finger over them, I can not feel any of them, most are probably the factory machine marks. Is this something I can hone the cylinders and either reuse the stock piston or use a stand bore piston (ie TRW Forged Pistons)? I prefer to hone the cylinder if its still reasonable to do. I was thinking about trying to find a good use set of L35 connecting rods and replace the bearings, Oil Pump, Timing Chain & Gaskets. I would also use new arp bolts. Any other suggestions.

The reason I prefer to hone the piston bores vs machining 0.030 is our blocks can't take much on overbore ( a good portion will only take 0.030 over) and since this is the number match block I would prefer to keep it rebuildable. I

 

[#2875]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

do you know anyone who works at a machine shop? i have a 4 bolt forged short block which i built myself (i'm not an engine builder). drilling for the splayed caps is the only issue if you don't have access to a mill.

i would definately hone the cylinders and either reuse your pistons or buy on-size srp or cp pistons, the trws aren't worth the investment. use eagle i-beam rods (ebay v8 set is cheapest route). you can go a step further in savings and don't go 4 bolt. at the very least rebuild it back stock except for eagle rods. take your time, do it yourself and save a boatload of money. you don't need to buy a shortblock from someone else to have a solid bottom end.

I have my top end apart and something looks funny with #4 in terms of oil. I need some advice in terms of freshning up the short block. I am getting laid off in Sept, but I will be able to keep my current income level through side work (but its not permanent solution). Ideally I would like to do a 4 bolt Forged Short block (Campbell Automotive), but unless I get a reasonable paying job with some long term security that won't be happening. So I have plenty of time, but not a lot of money to spend.

I have 50K miles on my motor. I did have detonation problems, so my bearing have probably taken a beating.

The cylinders have a a few scratch on some of them, but when I run my finger over them, I can not feel any of them, most are probably the factory machine marks. Is this something I can hone the cylinders and either reuse the stock piston or use a stand bore piston (ie TRW Forged Pistons)? I prefer to hone the cylinder if its still reasonable to do. I was thinking about trying to find a good use set of L35 connecting rods and replace the bearings, Oil Pump, Timing Chain & Gaskets. I would also use new arp bolts. Any other suggestions.

The reason I prefer to hone the piston bores vs machining 0.030 is our blocks can't take much on overbore ( a good portion will only take 0.030 over) and since this is the number match block I would prefer to keep it rebuildable. I

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

do you know anyone who works at a machine shop?

No, I don't....well atleast anyone that I trust.

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

This is what I'm going to be doing next month or the month after Dave. I'm going to hone (if nothing else is wrong, crossing fingers on my broken ring not beating the hell out of the walls.:roll: ) and then just do a basic rebuild.

I too have been thinking 4-bolt while its out and apart. It would be the smartest thing. The only problem I have at this point is this. I hate putting all brand new good strong parts into the bottom end, and then slapping on my stock cleaned up heads. But I also cant aford the $2k Vortec kit. So what to do ya know.

 

[#2875]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

i did a search for machine shops in your town and came up with J & P and DCM. any of those names ring a bell? it took me about 2 hours to drill and tap the holes. the hard part is in the setup. our shop rates around here are about $50. up north it may be a little more but the whole job shouldn't cost more than $150. the main caps are more than that i think.

No, I don't....well atleast anyone that I trust.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

i did a search for machine shops in your town and came up with J & P and DCM. any of those names ring a bell? it took me about 2 hours to drill and tap the holes. the hard part is in the setup. our shop rates around here are about $50. up north it may be a little more but the whole job shouldn't cost more than $150. the main caps are more than that i think.

Ahh, I see what you were asking. I was thinking that you were asking about a friend I could get a break or a favor from. I have a machine shop that I trust in the town next to mine. I have used them a couple times and they came highly recommended by the local Corvette club. Their rates the last time I went was $65/hr.

 

[#2875]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

But I also cant aford the $2k Vortec kit. So what to do ya know.

here is what i know: build those heads yourself !!!!!! i bought a set of brand new for $75 each if memory serves. here is a link to some for $200 although i think you can get `em cheaper.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1997...hZ019QQitemZ8000376565QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWD1V

you can buy valves anywhere but howard has the hookup (www.arfabrication.com). take the heads and valves to an automotive machine shop and have them do a valve job and possibly drill and tap for your intake (although you can easily do this). you should have less than $500 in the build. i don't know this for sure but it should be close to the same thing you pay $2000 for from a syty vendor.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

you should have less than $500 in the build. i don't know this for sure but it should be close to the same thing you pay $2000 for from a syty vendor.

I have talked about it a little before and I am doing the basic Vortec swap. Intake Conversion are $260 from Turbotime, I bought a used set of low mileage complete heads (with valves), had them drilled, reused the stock valves and I will be doing a light port job myself and the machine shop will do a 3 angle valve job.

I disagree about it being the same as $2K kit. If you add up larger valves, springs, retainers, modified intake, machine work for valves jobs, seal, valve guides etc. This alone could run close to $1K with quality parts. The other $1K would be for port work (iron take some time to do) My Vortec swap will not flow as well as the $2K Heads. I would hope the expensive head flow at least 260cfm but probably in the 280-90 cfm range. My Vortec at 215 cfm plus the light port work its a hell of a lot better than 150cfm the stock heads flow plus it will take a lot more timing.

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

I have talked about it a little before and I am doing the basic Vortec swap. Intake Conversion are $260 from Turbotime, I bought a used set of low mileage complete heads (with valves), had them drilled, reused the stock valves and I will be doing a light port job myself and the machine shop will do a 3 angle valve job.

I disagree about it being the same as $2K kit. If you add up larger valves, springs, retainers, modified intake, machine work for valves jobs, seal, valve guides etc. This alone could run close to $1K with quality parts. The other $1K would be for port work (iron take some time to do) My Vortec swap will not flow as well as the $2K Heads. I would hope the expensive head flow at least 260cfm but probably in the 280-90 cfm range. My Vortec at 215 cfm plus the light port work its a hell of a lot better than 150cfm the stock heads flow plus it will take a lot more timing.

Yeah, thats what I'm told where the money's at. Is in the port work.

Thats my problem though, I dont trust any machine shops around here to do any kind of work on a lawn mower, let alone my truck engine. :roll:

 

[#2875]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

thats the forum pessimists talking. block and head work is cake. just tell them EXACTLY what you want. measure (blueprint) the block when you get it back. if they didn't do it right make them find you a block and do it over. don't sign any wavier or anything that covers their ass if they screw up. i have never seen a shop not stand behind their work. if all the area shops suck go further. ask around to see who others use.

Yeah, thats what I'm told where the money's at. Is in the port work.

Thats my problem though, I dont trust any machine shops around here to do any kind of work on a lawn mower, let alone my truck engine. :roll:

 

[#2875]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

tim, sent you a PM (unrelated, didn't want to hijack thread).

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

thats why i enjoy having rpm somewhat close to me. my vortecs will flow huge amounts!

 

[#2875]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

thats why i enjoy having rpm somewhat close to me. my vortecs will flow huge amounts!

yes but at what cost?

 

[QUICK STORM]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

at the 2k cost, i'm more than capable of doing all the work minus machining on my typhoon, but working on cars for a living and working on my truck for a living as well, its just nice to know that there is a tried and true product out there that doesn't require any extra work on my part. my ty already frustrates me as is, but i do see a light at the end of the tunnel.

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

What about L35 heads?

 

[NecroWolf]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

i didn't think you could use the v8 rods in the 4.3 unless you turned down the rod mains?

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

yes but at what cost?

If I had the money, I would have spent the additional money on a nicer set heads and I may down the road go with a set of ported Vortec's with larger valves (I also would spend more money on a shortblock, valvetrain, 4L80E), but I don't have the money if I want my Sy on the road near future. Years ago, I would have just saved up for it and let my vehicle sit until I could, but I plan on driving my truck next year.

Some people like to do projects on a budget, some weigh the cost benefit, other like to use the best of everything, etc. Everyone has there own priorities and goals.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

I realize in thinking back today, that I made a post similiar to this 9 months ago. Oops It had some pretty good responses and idea for budget rebuild.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=33522

 

[bezerk]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

if you want to frenshen up your cilinder, honing is good..
if you had piston damage or something i wouldn't hone that.
if your cilinder isn't 100%, honing will not make it round, it willonly roughen up the walls to have less blowby

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Freshening up the short block.

So I am leaning toward find a good set of used L35 Rods using either 4.000 TRW or SRP forged Pistons, honing the block, and freshening up everything else. IMO Basically this is how GM should have built our shortblock in the first place. Will I need to rebalance the rotating assembly with new pistons and L35 rods? In my other post myclone said I should be alright not rebalance the assembly with L35 rods and the stock piston, but will different piston throw the balance out of whack?

I was planning on reusing the stock (anemic) cam, and keeping the rpm's down, but I looked over at Hood's camshaft list to see if I could find a cheap factory upgrade. IMO It probably going to be hard to find a Astro/Safari Cam shaft. Are the balance shaft cams interchangable, would they create issue with the timing chain. I probably should just stick with my stock cam rather risk an used cam, but I am just exploring this option.