Won't start... out of ideas

Jersey 91/93

Jersey 91/93

NASTE Member
July 5th I took the Ty to work while my better half took my daily in for new brakes. At closing time, the Ty wouldn't start and a quick attempt at a jump start did nothing. 4 hours later, I returned to the office and was able to jump start it. I backed it into my garage and let it sit for about 20 hours. The next afternoon, I tried starting it again, without success. It would crank, but never caught. I tried jumpstarting it again several times, finally succeeding on attempt number 6 or 7. The battery was holding at around 12.2V to 12.4V during all of this nonsense.

I guessed it might have been a bad ground and tried running a jumper cable from the negative battery terminal to bolt on the block... no effect. Next I started pulling things apart. Purple wire was burnt up and the starter looks like the original (101k miles). I installed a Summit Racing remote solonoid kit on the passenger fender. When I tried to put the jumper on the original starter solonoid, I ended up breaking off the damn terminal post. Now I needed to pull the starter to replace the original solonoid, so I went all the way in and installed a new "96 454" style mini-starter in its place.

I finally got things bolted together enough yesterday to give it a shot. Turn key to "on" and the fuel pump primes then shuts off as usual, then key to "start" makes a lot of noise from the starter but the damn thing still doesn't catch and actually start. I crawled under it today with flashlight in hand while my better half tried the key. The starter is spinning the flywheel with a good amount of speed, but nothing else seems to be happening. The battery (Optima Red Top btw) is still holding over 12V with the key off. Jumpstarting from my daily driver doesn't kick the engine over either.

I apologize for the long post, but I'm out of ideas. Any suggestions guys?
 
Flyin Ryan

Flyin Ryan

hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

I didn't read the whole story but I had the same issue.. turned out to be the fuel pump relay in my case (wouldn't start but finally did days later then wouldn't start again etc with full cranking and full battery too) I switched the fuel pump relay with the ac relay (right next to each over the brake booster) and bam ... Just a suggestion also do you hear the fuel pump prime when you turn the key on? if not check the ecm fuse and if your getting voltage to the pump
 
gjp

gjp

another post whore
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

sounds like fuel pressure or spark related, Bad coil or ignition coil.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

Banned
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

So the starter turns the engine over,but it won't fire?
Tach jump when it's cranking?
Got fuel?
ECM B fuse good?

If the starter isn't working,it is the solenoid or a bad bendix (assuming it has power)
 
M

Maaso

New member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

Do you have a fuel pressure guage?

If not, and you plan on working on anything fuel injected....I would strongly suggest you get one, they are only about ~$40 and are invaluable when it comes to diagnosing fuel injection problems.

I just got my first Ty two days ago, I dont know enough about them yet to really be giving advise, but I do know fuel injection. Since this is an MPI system, it should have 38-44lbs of fuel pressure.

If its too low (35 or less) then you got a weak fuel pump and well....dont have enough fuel pressure.

If its too high(45 or more) then you got a faulty regulator, or vacuum problems.

My first suggestion with out spending the money on the fuel pressure guage would be to check the vacuum line around the regulator for cracks and swelling, physically inspect the regulator for cracks/leaks, then if everything there checks out. Move on to the fuel lines/rails. Check the fuel lines all the way from the tank to the motor, checking for any unusuall bends/kinks, or if the line is dented or crushed anywhere. Check the shraider valve....Im assuming it still has the cap on it. If theres no cap then clean the valve real good, and blow out the vavle too with compressed air. Because if theres anything foreign in the vavle that you cant see, and you hook the pressure guage up to it. Its gonna push it down into the fuel system and possibly clog an injector or worse.

Also, while Im talkin about injectors.....ever heard of a noid light? Its a nifty litle LED light that plugs inline between the harness and the injector. And everytime the computer tells the injectors to pulse(open to spray fuel into the combustion chamber) the light will blink. Spending $7 at an Autozone will let you know if your computer is at least working right.

If your computer is telling you injectors to open, you got good fuel pressure, then I would dive into electrcal, check for corroded grounds around the fuel pump....check for corroded grounds everywhere now that I mention it. The harness leading back to the fuel pump aswell, maybe after all those years a wire was rubbing on the frame long enough to rub through the coating they put on it and expose bare wiring....and maybe there was a little to much moisure in the air one day...and maybe it caused the bare wiring to corrode up and increase the resistance....and maybe the increase resistance isnt letting enough voltage get the fuel pump to make it work correctly.

Check all that first, then if all that checks out.....then we move onto the dreaded ignition and more into the electrical.

*Edit: I still think I spell shraider wrong
 
BigBadSmoosh

BigBadSmoosh

Picking fights on I-65 since 2013
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

I have a fuel pressure guage and can probably help you figure it out..

give me a call and see if I'm around this weekend, I wouldn't have a problem lending them to you.. or if you do get it started drive it up and if we have time we can troubleshoot.
 
B

blk97ta

Member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

i had an issue like this ended up being a bad check valve in the fuel pump it would prime but not hold pressure !
 
Jersey 91/93

Jersey 91/93

NASTE Member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

I'll answer what I know of the questions asked so far:

- I do hear the fuel pump prime when I first turn the key... I assumed that was a good sign.
- The starter cranks the flywheel, but it won't fire... your reading is correct Jimmy.
- I didn't look at the tach (yeah, dumb move), so I'll check that tonight.
- I believe there's around 3/4 of a tank in there, so I shouldn't be out of gas.
- I'll pull the ECM B fuse tonight and check it.
- I don't have a fuel pressure gauge, but I will try to meet up with Smaug this weekend if he's around to use his.

Also, since we seem to be focused on fuel here, I guess I should mention that I just replaced my fuel filter sometime in the spring. I also have new-in-the-box lines from the filter back to the pump, but the shop didn't want to put them in without replacing the fuel pump and sending unit. I intended to replace a lot of the old fuel system components this winter, but it looks like my timetable might have just gotten shifted up a bit.
 
BigBadSmoosh

BigBadSmoosh

Picking fights on I-65 since 2013
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

unless you are leaking gas, you don't need to replace those lines yet.. and if the fuel pump is shot then you might as well go ahead and replace those lines while they drop the tank and replace the pump/sending unit.
 
Jersey 91/93

Jersey 91/93

NASTE Member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

The shop ordered the lines because the originals are so rusty they didn't think they would be able to replace the fuel filter without destroying them... it turns out they underestimated their skill level and made it work with the original lines anyway. I bought the new parts anyway in anticipation of replacing the gas tank and everything in it eventually. Why the hell couldn't the truck wait until I was ready?
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

Banned
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

Oh yeah Tim,could be that your ECM is going bad.Anyone local you can borrow one from?
 
Jersey 91/93

Jersey 91/93

NASTE Member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

I'm pretty sure the one from Smaug's Syclone isn't being used right now... Eric, expect a couple of phone calls this weekend!
 
Jersey 91/93

Jersey 91/93

NASTE Member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

I just got home. ECM B fuse is good... its a 10A in there with perfect connectivity. Also, the tach doesn't budge at all when I turn the key to Start. I really have no idea if that's good or bad.
 
Jimmy

Jimmy

Banned
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

Jersey 91/93 said:
I just got home. ECM B fuse is good... its a 10A in there with perfect connectivity. Also, the tach doesn't budge at all when I turn the key to Start. I really have no idea if that's good or bad.
Click to expand...
No tach is ignition module or the distributor itself.
 
Jersey 91/93

Jersey 91/93

NASTE Member
Re: Won't start... out of ideas

Well, I started looking into the ignition setup... following Chilton's proceedure, it looks like my ignition coil is probably dead. At least that's pretty cheap. I'll try to replace that tomorrow and see what happens.
 
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