Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

[mrweelr]

I'm having a full-blown race motor built for my Syclone along with a new GTQ67 BB turbo and other goodies. I recently had two almost new 60-1 turbos fail and have no reason to believe my original motor caused the failure. I suspect maybe it was caused by low or excessive oil pressure to the turbo, but can't say for sure. I did pull the turbo oil supply line off the turbo and start the motor after the last one failed and it filled a bottle instantly. The RPM oil return line was not clogged either.

I have a turbo oil filter coming off the stock oil filter housing over to the turbo, but that didn't prevent the 2nd turbo from failing in short order. There is an oil inlet restrictor on the turbo; isn't this used to prevent excessive pressure from damaging the turbo? Does anyone run a pressure gauge on their turbo oil supply line and what should the correct pressure range be? I want to do what I can to prevent this new turbo from going south. I'm a bit paranoid now, for good reason. Ideas?

 

[sy#2921]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

I run just the stock gauge and then have an autometer mini pro lite that comes on when it runs less than 18psi. With the inline restricter you should be fine. I know they make different size restricters and you might have to switch to a smaller one based on what the oil pressure will be in the motor. Call the turbo manufactuer directly and ask what size restrictor you will need for the psi you plan to see

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

Cool, I will see if I can get the GTQ67 BB oil pressure specs from Mike or Eric (Turbotime). I guess it's also possible that compressor surge is what damaged those 60-1 turbos. I'm going to have a BOV welded onto the upper hard IC pipe as an added precaution with this new turbo.

 

[Don W.]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

Fail = seals or bearings? I wuz gonna say something in the drain but you say you've checked that. Hot shut down maybe? I doubt that applies to you but maybe some other heat issue? Any kind of oil cooler on that new motor? Just thinking out loud.

You gonna bring that thing to the track? We need to get some more SyTy's up here. I think you said Wed's are difficult but when they run on the weekends it's crazy fun.

 

[Tooky]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

Hey Jeremy, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but I have a local Syclone friend, ironically with an RPM 4 bolt motor in his Syclone.. and he has experienced 2 turbo failures just like yours! First, a PT54 that suddenly bit the dust, it appeared to be foreign object damage to the turbine wheel. OK, I guess nothing too unusual about that, the turbo had a fair amount of miles on it (maybe 30,000).

So he replaces it with a new PTE GTQ 67, and that one failed in about 3000 miles / 6 months later! Guess what? More turbine wheel damage! PTE replaced that turbo under warranty, but if he has a 3rd turbo failure, we'll really be flabbergasted.

I can't think of what would cause this, but I'll try to keep you updated if we ever figure it out, and hopefully you can do the same...

 

[blk00z28]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

I run just the stock gauge and then have an autometer mini pro lite that comes on when it runs less than 18psi.

How do you have that set up? Also, any pics..

 

[mrweelr]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

Thanks for sharing that Josh. I really suspect the failures were attributed to one or more of the following:

1. Running 20+ psi constantly on brand new turbo with no BOV
2. Too much oil pressure to turbo with no cooling off before shutdowns

The first 60-1 was an ITS non-BB unit that lasted 2-3K miles, at most. So then I got a new Turbonetics BB turbo with water-cooled center section and also installed an inline filter for the turbo. That one failed in less than 1500 miles. Both had the same turbine blade damage, but after looking in my cat converter and only finding a small piece of turbine blade lodged in the honeycomb, I'm not convinced it was foreign object damage.

Now, I'm replacing the entire motor with an RPM street terror, installing new SS RPM headers, and upgrading to a Precision GTQ67 BB. I'll be really stumped if I lose another turbo like that, but only time will tell.

Hey Jeremy, I'm sure this isn't what you want to hear, but I have a local Syclone friend, ironically with an RPM 4 bolt motor in his Syclone.. and he has experienced 2 turbo failures just like yours! First, a PT54 that suddenly bit the dust, it appeared to be foreign object damage to the turbine wheel. OK, I guess nothing too unusual about that, the turbo had a fair amount of miles on it (maybe 30,000).

So he replaces it with a new PTE GTQ 67, and that one failed in about 3000 miles / 6 months later! Guess what? More turbine wheel damage! PTE replaced that turbo under warranty, but if he has a 3rd turbo failure, we'll really be flabbergasted.

I can't think of what would cause this, but I'll try to keep you updated if we ever figure it out, and hopefully you can do the same...

 

[4C FED]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

PTE did have problems with some of their turbine wheels breaking. It was a big topic on theTurboBuick board some time ago. Like most message boards it looks like a server crash has lost that topic.

Here is one person with 3 broken PTE5x turbines....
http://groups.msn.com/IntercooledBuick/shoebox.msnw

 

[Tooky]

Re: Turbo Oil Pressure - Anyone Using a Gauge?

Its funny you mention that, Rick. When I bought my PT51 in 2003, that whole ordeal seemed to be just concluding and I was warned by several people that the PT51 model specifically, was most likely to suffer turbine failure. But I decided to buy it anyway and now I've got about 30,000 ultra hard miles on it (almost always 20+PSI, sustained 27 PSI in the quarter mile once, one time suffered a 30+PSI boost-gauge-maxing spike) and still no problems. I don't really take any precaution to idle the truck extra long before shutting it down, either.

So I don't feel that running it "too hard" results in failures, but I sure would like to know what could have possibly come out of the motor to damage those wheels.. One thing I can say, is I have never ever drove my PT51 without an air filter. My friend drove his turbos without an air filter for a period of time. I can't really imagine something being sucked in, not damaging the compressor, making it through the intercooler (?), not damaging the engine, only to subsequently break off the turbine wheels..... :dunno: