4.3 vs LS Reliability

[nickerz]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability


Nice post :tup: I will throw in my :2cents: though that the huge growth in power hasn't so much been Chinese manufacturing as much as tuning. Tuning has come a LONG way in the past decade. Even when parts were available for the LS in the early 2000s, there weren't nearly as many single digit street cars.

Standalone engine management, multi fuel tunes, availability of factory forged motors like the Supra, Terminator and solid and available lower ends like the LQ4 & LQ9 have made a HUGE impact in the scene.

So yeah, part of your answer I think is dead on with Chinese manufacturing lowering costs dramatically (this is more of an issue of competition than true manufacturing costs). But the other part is the knowledge curve & tuning.

 

[Aeroking]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Vote NO to LS swaps!!! :tup:

 

[danimal95]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Im sure everyone knows my opinion on this subject by nowbut I will tell you this:after nearly 4 years and nearly 15k miles,plus countless mid 9 second runs,not to mention countless street pulls/races I had to finally pull the engine on my LS swapped TY....and not before the last time on the dyno it made 975whp at only 18.5 lbs of boost....if that doesnt speak volumes for reliability Im not sure what would

 

[Suny]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

With GM bringing back the 4.3L V6, we can now build a better engine that will be as reliable and easy to tune. Its just gonna take some time to get them in our trucks. Also we can now get a solid 6speed auto to come with it!!! :lol:

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Damm (promised I would NOT Post, but FORCE too great...)!

Kablooooie! Kapow! Kablam! This is the sound of a "reliable" boosted V6 at a syty event.
If GM was so darn convinced of their greatness, why the lack of parts, support, dealer maintenance,
consumer demand, and conversion into Corvettes -low or -high performance models ("America's Greatest Sportcar").

Not saying to "toss" a good working motor for an LS but if its broken (gift horse in the mouth) why bother (unless your a
collector who enjoys old technology, flatheads, steam engines, garter belts, and the good ole days). Each has their place in history
and in time, may be worth something to someone (often called "pickers" on the cable channel). But since its
your money "set it free" on a V6 and let us know years from now how that worked for ya...or not.

My bet is that more LS's will be running then (unless every drag strip is closed). But like those before me, I've definitely
seen the light.

-Larry
LS7 NoJimmy Typhoon

 

[Syclone Rob]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

For me as much as some of these ls swaps are cool and fast as hell. Though IMO a syty has to be a v6. So For me my sy and future Ty will stay v6. Now like I said the v8 swaps are cool and even more cool when it's a turbo 8 but I justncannot do a v8 in a syty. Now that gm has a new v6 on the horizon maybe in time it will have the potential to be something great in a syty for a reasonable cost like the ls v8.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

The interesting thing is most non-syty people think the V6 turbo was the coolest thing about them. Having a V6 perform the way ours did back in the day was a real feat and that was just cool.

John,

Very well said. I quoted a portion of what you said because that still holds true today. Unfortunately Ford is the one trying to capitalize on it with their EcoTec engines. Although they are not going for ultimately performance, they are going to "enough" performance to keep up with the current V8 in their class and attempting to get better MPG's. It seems that is coming up short with the numbers of GMs new 5.3L V8 getting better mileage.

But not to get too far off topic, my point is I'm curious to see how long the EcoTec thing lasts with Ford. I know a handful of people who have the Explorer's and the Taurus' with those engines and they ALL bought them to have power AND mileage..... well they don't complain about the power, but the mileage is not as claimed, so they are not happy with the cars as a whole.

Will Ford go back to developing a better V8? It's got to be cheaper than the turbo V6 to manufacture, only time will tell...... the same thing kinda happened with many SyTy owners. How much time and money can someone dump into an outdated 4.3L. Heck, our engines were outdated in 1993 compared to the Turbo Buick guys.

I've been a member here for 13 years, I haven't had the same big HP goals as a lot of members here, I've always enjoyed the unique history aspect of these trucks a little more, but when it comes down to it, after seeing many of the big guns go through $2500 crankshafts and rods and blocks and etc., it pains me to even think about going that route.

When you can get an iron LS block for practically nothing, buy a steel crank for $850 (many say you dont even need it) and toss in some pistons and a cam and make more power for less than half the cost.... well, who can blame them.

For me personally, my truck has been through hell, twice. Its not a clean title truck, even fully restored it would never be worth its true value, so I really have no reason not to do the swap. If I owned a nice clean unmolested SyTy, there is now way I'd even think about it.

At this point, there are far more rough, beat up, ran into the ground trucks out there than nice, clean ones (or so it seems), so I predict the popularity of the swaps will continue, especially with new owners coming in all the time.

Now, I do have plans to buy and restore another Typhoon so I have a nice original and a nice race truck and Ill have the best of both worlds.

When all is said and done, those who are left with the V6 AWD trucks will probably have something more valuable than those with the V8's, no matter how fast or how much money goes into them.

 

[nickerz]

Im sure everyone knows my opinion on this subject by nowbut I will tell you this:after nearly 4 years and nearly 15k miles,plus countless mid 9 second runs,not to mention countless street pulls/races I had to finally pull the engine on my LS swapped TY....and not before the last time on the dyno it made 975whp at only 18.5 lbs of boost....if that doesnt speak volumes for reliability Im not sure what would

What happened?

Sent from my SCH-R950 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Windedv6]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Nice post :tup: I will throw in my :2cents: though that the huge growth in power hasn't so much been Chinese manufacturing as much as tuning. Tuning has come a LONG way in the past decade. Even when parts were available for the LS in the early 2000s, there weren't nearly as many single digit street cars.

Standalone engine management, multi fuel tunes, availability of factory forged motors like the Supra, Terminator and solid and available lower ends like the LQ4 & LQ9 have made a HUGE impact in the scene.

So yeah, part of your answer I think is dead on with Chinese manufacturing lowering costs dramatically (this is more of an issue of competition than true manufacturing costs). But the other part is the knowledge curve & tuning.

Good tuning has been around for a long time. I was running Speed Pro over 10 years ago before it become FAST/FAST FXI. A decade ago turbos weren't popular as cheap NOS kits were the hit and then along came a spurt in superchargers. The fact that most of the domestic car guys looked down on the tuner world, ricer cars played a big part. Most of the domestic guys didn't take the time to learn how to tune an EFI car. Even today most LS owners don't tune their own. LS turbo cars became the rage recently because they can be purchased cheap and there are a lot of available kits...and a lot of the kits are china made. I know of many LS conversions that have $500 to $1,000 yard motors with ebay knock off turbos that are doing fine and making good power.

Good tuning as been around a long time...user friendly tuning is getting better however, for those that been afraid to tackle it before.

John

 

[Windedv6]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Damm (promised I would NOT Post, but FORCE too great...)!

Kablooooie! Kapow! Kablam! This is the sound of a "reliable" boosted V6 at a syty event.
If GM was so darn convinced of their greatness, why the lack of parts, support, dealer maintenance,
consumer demand, and conversion into Corvettes -low or -high performance models ("America's Greatest Sportcar").

Not saying to "toss" a good working motor for an LS but if its broken (gift horse in the mouth) why bother (unless your a
collector who enjoys old technology, flatheads, steam engines, garter belts, and the good ole days). Each has their place in history
and in time, may be worth something to someone (often called "pickers" on the cable channel). But since its
your money "set it free" on a V6 and let us know years from now how that worked for ya...or not.

My bet is that more LS's will be running then (unless every drag strip is closed). But like those before me, I've definitely
seen the light.

-Larry
LS7 NoJimmy Typhoon

Larry

I didn't say the 4.3 setup in our trucks were reliable...especially when pushed beyond what they were designed for. There are actually a lot of nice stock or slightly modified trucks that are reliable. I personally think the LS setups are great, make good reliable power and look great in under the hood. I am speaking about the sadness of how the need to "keep up with the Jones" (regarding hp levels), has somewhat forced us to succumb to changing the original platform of these trucks. There have always been rare vehicles made and plenty of conversions. It is to each their own what one does with their own cars. There are also rare vehicles that people have to make their own parts or pay big money to restore one. I have seen a small block ford stuffed into a older Lambo for probably the reason it was cheaper than to find parts and keep it original.
If we feel that we need to be in the tens or even nines and eights, then V8 swaps will definitely be cheaper and more reliable. Still, it is sad that the unique platform of our trucks and the defiant posture we once had for the special little V6 turbo is beginning to slip away.
John

 

[90pgt]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

im currently bring new life into the bowtie sy that i bought from my friend.
i can say one thing for sure after being around 2 very different build fast syclones (one the wound up black death sbc swap other being the Jim Stokes built bowtie that i now own) if my truck didnt already have all the high dollar parts already in it, i wouldn't be having a v6 syclone.
Granted im spending alittle on updating a few things to really be able to push those high dollar parts, heads, higher compression pistons, belt drive and a few more things.

mainly i really want to see what this truck can do with the v6, but lets face it by the time you get it built to make big power the only thing that engine has in common with a true syty heart is that there both v6's

but it does seem as these trucks get older you can do a pretty nice build for cheaper, if you pick carefully you can find some pretty nice used parts, my ported pontiac heads i have a total of 2400.00 into them complete with titanium intake and inconel exhaust valves and jesel rockers.

i say build what you want the truck to do, in my case if anything happens to the bowtie, i have a moldex lsx block waiting to be built.

 

[90pgt]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

i think you can get the high horse power to keep up with the Jones with a V6 its just going to cost more to do it and having that same hp load spread over 2 more cylinders and 100 more ci's theres no doubts that it would hold up a little longer if both where built with like parts

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

Its hard to decipher whether V6 Enthusiasts actually BLAME LS Swappers for
keeping trucks alive, on the road (versus jack stands) running
(with better emissions, gas mileage) and possibly saving some...
which could possibly cause resale values on those V6ers to stagnate
and not soar through the roof (due to more vehicles being available);

Or whether V6 Enthusiasts differ in their distaste for "what is being swapped":

A motor being bad, an upgrade to 4L80e good, an ECM/turbo/ic change good,
a supercharger bad, etc) feeling the holly grail has been soiled it the wrong part has been changed.

Its amazing to what lengths folks pick-n-choose their "I hate this, but
approve this" mentality. Polish rims/chrome brackets on a Marboro
and your a communist. Done on a V6 with 50K miles and your detailing it.

Building an Oddfire/Bowtie perserves a trucks racing status; Swap to a
LS (but adding one turbo) screws up the heritage. And add twin turbos
with A/C delete to a V6 is groovy.

All very comical (the do's and don'ts list) that is..you'd think we could all
support each others truck without the constant chatter. Its almost like
folks "ask" for permission rather than consider the dumb-azz experience level/quality level of the owners swap.
A poor screwed up V6 is no more worthy of praise than a screwed up LS (in my mind).

-Larry (and Claire) Brown
LS7 NoJimmy Typhoon
PS. By the way, Corvette forums have the same type of argument
(Resto-mod, or not to Resto-mod earlier Vettes).

 

[Darin]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

A very wise, well respected, local individual in the SYTY community once told me, "Build the truck how you want it. Who cares what anyone else thinks?". It was also said when I asked about a LS swap, "Do you like working on your truck? I mean, CONSTANTLY working on your truck? If so, build a 10 second V6."

I personally am excited about the new LS based 4.3. I won't have time to even consider a swap for a 5-6 years, so by then they should be reasonably available in junkyards. Does this destroy the heritage of the vehicle? Does this make me any less of a man?

Not at all. I'll build it how I want. I don't care. I have the most respect for the people that appreciate ANY sort of hard work work put into anything, whether it's their cup of tea or not.

 

[MIXEDBREED]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I can't really blame a syty guy swapping in a ls motor since you can make alot of hp for very little money. My gto would run 10's all day on motor and low 9's on a 200 shot of nitrous. I drove the car everday all over the place and even drove from dallas to reno several times stopping in vegas to make a few fun runs and street races. The ls motor never broke on me or gave me any problems. Granted I never really pushed it to it's max that it was built for but still not a bad DD car.

Now I am finishing my v6 build for my sy just beacause I never built a v6 motor before and felt like learning a few things. If this motor goes boom then most likely I will swap a ls2 that I have in the garage into the truck. Kinda wondered if anyone has ever done a rear mount turbo on our trucks and think that would be cool.

But hey if you payed for the truck then build what you want and who gives a rats ass about what some fool on a forum or at a car show thinks. If they have a problem tell them to go buy one and build it the way they want.:tup:

 

[danimal95]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I take both of my trucks to rather large car shows in the area/region. I usually trophy with both of them. But the AWD will normally out rank the other when judged by serious judges, especially when they ask "is it still a 4.3 with AWD?" I am asked all the time if it's still a V6 and AWD...as if they know that these rare trucks are getting change-overs and cut up. When I tell them it is, they stop and spend a lot of time asking questions and going over it. Our trucks are getting noticed as the younger crowd "from back in their day" is getting older and more interested in their "old school" dream car. Hopefully there will still be some V6 AWD trucks around when everyone gets tired of seeing every type of car with an LS turbo stuck it.

The OGs are still around, the Big Guns still talk and occasionally we still meet up..,just not on the board so much. We, quite frankly, get tired of the cheap hp talk. We are into Syclone and Typhoons and it seems that the treads have become more about motor swaps than the coolness of the trucks, the pride of what they are and the thing inside that makes us smile and swell up a little (ego) when someone looks at us and says..."is that a real Syclone Typhoon? WOW,I have heard about them but never seen a real one...does it still have the V6 Grand National motor?" :tup:

John[/QUOTE]

the funny thing is that I can say the exact same thing about my truck,with the LS swap.The problem that I have is that 90% of the general public doesnt even know what a Typhoon is,I get asked all the time at the car shows if it the original engine....with the hood up

I take great pride in what I have accomplished with my truck and the craftsmanship that went into it,along with the 2 others I have converted since mine was done.I knew when I was shopping for mine that it was going to get the LS swap almost immediately,i bought it because they are indeed cool,but quit honestly I could care less about the V6 in my own truck,I knew I wanted a high hp AWD truck that was reliable as hell,and that just couldnt be accomplished with the V6,key word being reliable.If that makes me any less of an enthusiast then so be it

And yes anyone can "stick" a turbo LS in anything,but not everyone has the ability to make it look like it belongs there,and I think that is what separates the masses from someone like me

 

[0966Sy]

I'll keep my 20mpg reliable inexpensive V6 any day over an LS.

 

[RealFastV6]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I wonder if the same discussions took place back in the 80s regarding BBC and SBC into everything.

To each his own.

 

[Maxtor]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

I know my Syclone is slow by today's street car standards. The turbo V6 in my truck is a key element of how I associate with my hobby - in much the same way the GN crowd is the "Turbo 6" crowd. I definitely don't disagree with anyone putting a more efficient, more powerful LS engine in their truck for less money. Hats off to anyone enjoying their hobby. If anyone holds off performing a V8 swap based solely on dimishing the value of the truck they should think twice.

It does, however, make our hobbies different in many ways and makes us less likely to share the same interests. For ME, listening to details about LS engine swaps, LS builds, LS anything bores me to death. My truck will never have a V8 as long as I own it. Not my passion, not my interest. At that point the only similarity if the sheet metal and perhaps the drivetrain.

No one needs to say they are sorry or that one is better than the other. Both are great if it reflects that owner's passion. If I'm sorry for anything associated with these discussions it would be that it is dividing a very small, very tight group.

 

[Aeroking]

Re: 4.3 vs LS Reliability

The turbo V6 in my truck is a key element of how I associate with my hobby

Agreed.



I've owned and raced a couple LS cars/trucks. The engines are a great design, they make power very efficiently, and showcase modern technology. I've helped with dozens of swaps. A $400 junkyard 6.0 with a cam and some spray will put down 500hp, you can pour rocks in the oil pan and an LS still makes power.

I feel SyTys/GNs lose their spirit and their legend when you switch to a different powerplant. The trucks are known for being turbo V6s. Away goes the mythical Syclone experience, then its just vehicle X with a LS motor.

Don't give in to the darkside.