4L80E as replacement

[ghettosled]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

There's no real comparison of a 4L80E to a 700r4. 4L80E's can be built to withstand over 1200HP. You won't find a 700 do that no matter who builds it.
Once you've seen a 4L80E torn down you'll understand. The only aluminum geartrain part in it is the overdrive "crown". Everthing else is steel or machined iron. Clutches are humongo. No comparison.

exactly what he said..

To answer Jer's questions, none of our trannies are race only versions. The street/strip is what i would like to refer to as the stock replacement, whereas the race unit will live into the low 11s high 10s. It has the 5 pinion planataries, torque drive package among other things. Pretty much everything that is available to make the 700 as strong as it can be.

 

[Syclone#1992]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

exactly what he said..

To answer Jer's questions, none of our trannies are race only versions. The street/strip is what i would like to refer to as the stock replacement, whereas the race unit will live into the low 11s high 10s. It has the 5 pinion planataries, torque drive package among other things. Pretty much everything that is available to make the 700 as strong as it can be.

Ok, so heres my question. Why haven't any of the quick trucks considered this upgrade. There is all this talk about how much better this option is, but no one has accually done this...not that I have heard of. It sounds pointless to do on a stock or mid 12, high 11 sec truck. I want to see someone do this, seems there is a lot of speculation, but no proven results this is a cheaper, better solution.

 

[JSM]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Mrsyclone has been running on an 80e for over a year now in the 9's.

Until recently the parts to make the swap easy have not been available aside from one off having local machine shops make up adaptors, modify output shaft, etc.

I know of several people with 80e's now, in the works getting ready to install. I also know of several ready to swap should their 700 blow up.

The downsides to the 80e are cost and the tranny controller.

 

[Jer]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

The downsides to the 80e are cost and the tranny controller.

Aren't those the same reasons? In other words, is there anything other than cost of the controller that makes them a downside? Just want to make sure I didn't miss something in the whole conversation.

 

[myclone]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Aren't those the same reasons? In other words, is there anything other than cost of the controller that makes them a downside? Just want to make sure I didn't miss something in the whole conversation.

The 80E is a little heavier in weight than a 700 and the drive shafts need to be shortened/lengthened.

Its no comparison between the two IMO unless you dont mind driving around waiting for that moment when the 700 will spill its guts. It doesnt matter if youre driving a bone stock truck or a 1200hp monster cause its a matter when the 700 will go tits up not if.

On the other hand put an 80E in and forget about it other than fluid changes. Beat on the trans, launch at every stop light with 15psi, or whatever cause youll be hard pressed to break the trans (you can break it but it takes some effort/stupidity on your part).

80E>700

 

[MasterBlaster]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

launch at every stop light with 15psi, or whatever cause youll be hard pressed to break the trans (you can break it but it takes some effort/stupidity on your part).

80E>700

Why is it this is the only line I paid attention to. :rotf: I can see it now, every light a chance to get my reaction time down.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

4L80E (as does as THM400) has more parasitic losses as well.

 

[Crimson93Ty]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Make sure you keep it in perspective too. If you are making 600-700-900 HP, parasitic loss is NOT your concern. Who cares if it takes some of your torque to spin the components when you don't have to worry about breaking them? Big thing is the converter. Do NOT use a stock 4L80E converter. They weigh like sixty friggin pounds. There are 9" and 10.5" multidisk lockups that will get the job done and weigh half as much.

I'm sure Ed Hess was really concerned about "parasitic loss" when the rear end on his sy blew apart. At some point a "light weight" assembly needs to give way to something that will hold together, take a strain, and be safe to have fun with.

I'm really surprised guys on here haven't done this long before now. Controller is most likely the culprit. The trans can fit. That's not an issue. If you can make a TH400 work, the 4L80E will work.

Something really cool though. The guys that were holding back on tuning because they knew they were pushing it with the drivetrain will now have that obstacle lifted. Being new on here is cool as I'm kinda getting in at the beginning of a new period.

Raybestos is just now making 4L80E blue clutches in the 2nd gen material for the 4L80E in the overrun and OD packs. Transmission center sells them. I tried to see if Raybestos would offer a whole blue plate special "kit" as they do with the 700. No dice. They said as they do make EVERY plate in the trans in the blue material, the 4L80E is just now catching on as a "performance" trans and it's on their "to do" list. But until the performance market catches on, it's not gonna happen. So in defense of "no one doing it before", it seems that no one thought of the 4L80E as a 150 MPH trans. More of a workhorse heavy duty trans. But with the amazing torque these trucks make, it'll be a very good combination.

One thing I'll miss is the big slam 1-2 shift. But that same 1-2 shift I liked also slowed the truck down, so I'll see where that goes. :2cents: :2cents:

 

[SY#2910]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Lets do it ! ! ! I am already saving for this swap. I'm almost half way there now. Hopefully I will be ready for the swap in about 2 months if all goes well. I know that JS Manufacturing also has my back on this swap. I can't wait ! ! !

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Ok, so heres my question. Why haven't any of the quick trucks considered this upgrade. There is all this talk about how much better this option is, but no one has accually done this...not that I have heard of. It sounds pointless to do on a stock or mid 12, high 11 sec truck. I want to see someone do this, seems there is a lot of speculation, but no proven results this is a cheaper, better solution.

Yeah Mrsyclone is running one in his, (9.7sec syclone) Mike Lee tells me he LOVES it. My 4L80e goes in the Syclone on Tuesday 3-22-05 by Mike Lee and we decided to try the BiGSTUFF3 controller (1st Iv'e heard of in a Sy) and remove the DFI gen 7, that has 20 miles on it... jeez.. lol. I could not get any help from Mrsyclone when it came to "how do you like your 80e?" but after mine is in and up and running for some time I will post my observations. I wanted to just drop in a tranny that I would not have to keep biting my nails over how long it will hold up under my current build.
Good luck on doing yours.

Dean

 

[Syborg Twin Turbo]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

i am very interested in how your truck is set up and how well you like the big stuff as i also doing 4l80e with the big stuff but i am at least 18 months away from being finished.

 

[nightdiver]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Yeah Mrsyclone is running one in his, (9.7sec syclone) Mike Lee tells me he LOVES it. My 4L80e goes in the Syclone on Tuesday 3-22-05 by Mike Lee and we decided to try the BiGSTUFF3 controller (1st Iv'e heard of in a Sy) and remove the DFI gen 7, that has 20 miles on it... jeez.. lol. I could not get any help from Mrsyclone when it came to "how do you like your 80e?" but after mine is in and up and running for some time I will post my observations. I wanted to just drop in a tranny that I would not have to keep biting my nails over how long it will hold up under my current build.
Good luck on doing yours.

Dean

Dean, it would be great if you could get a few pics . I guess at least 5 or 6 of us are going to install a 4l80e this year

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

hmmm well I won't be there on Tuesday for the install but I will see IF Ghetosled will takes some,he's really busy alot of the time, heck I won't be surprised if something gets in his way of the work on tuesday. Ill try though.

Dean

 

[Deanzsyclone]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

i am very interested in how your truck is set up and how well you like the big stuff as i also doing 4l80e with the big stuff but i am at least 18 months away from being finished.

Yeah well order your Bigstuff3 about three months in advance, it seems to take a long time for them to build it for you, I'm hoping it will show up this week but not holding my breath.

 

[Jer]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

The 80E is a little heavier in weight than a 700 and the drive shafts need to be shortened/lengthened.

Its no comparison between the two IMO unless you dont mind driving around waiting for that moment when the 700 will spill its guts. It doesnt matter if youre driving a bone stock truck or a 1200hp monster cause its a matter when the 700 will go tits up not if.

On the other hand put an 80E in and forget about it other than fluid changes. Beat on the trans, launch at every stop light with 15psi, or whatever cause youll be hard pressed to break the trans (you can break it but it takes some effort/stupidity on your part).

80E>700

I think you misunderstood... when I asked that I was more curious if the price of the controller was the only downside because the price was the only negative that I've heard about but you worded it like there was something else that was a downfall of the controller. So, is it only price or is there more to it like your previous post hinted towards?

 

[myclone]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

I think you misunderstood... when I asked that I was more curious if the price of the controller was the only downside because the price was the only negative that I've heard about but you worded it like there was something else that was a downfall of the controller. So, is it only price or is there more to it like your previous post hinted towards?

I musta misunderstood as I thought you wanted to know what other issues besides the controller would need to be addressed to install an 80E. My bad.

To answer your question (I think) theres nothing really wrong with any of the controllers that Ive seen so far other than they can be pricey (500-1200 bucks depending on which one). I guess what I should have said is that if you blow up 2 or 3 built 700s then you start approaching the same cost as if you installed an 80E to begin with not counting the aggravation of R&Ring the trans after you blow them up.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Make sure you keep it in perspective too. If you are making 600-700-900 HP, parasitic loss is NOT your concern. Who cares if it takes some of your torque to spin the components when you don't have to worry about breaking them? Big thing is the converter. Do NOT use a stock 4L80E converter. They weigh like sixty friggin pounds. There are 9" and 10.5" multidisk lockups that will get the job done and weigh half as much.

Your totally right, I started writing something about it, but erased it (it needed work).

For a 12, 13 sec truck a 4L80E is overkill, it would probably even slow the truck down. For a 10 sec or faster truck is a 4L80E is a great idea, the 700r4 is ready to grenade at that HP/Torque level. (I think Mrsyclone was getting ~50 runs in before rebuilding 700 at the mid 10's sec level) At this level a 700/4L60 is becoming a real hassle to keep in one piece and take up a lot of precious time enjoying the truck. IMO the 11's is where you could go either way, 4L80E would be bullet proof, a well built 700 will hold up if built right and that is a big if. A 700/4L60 probably wouldn't last forever.

 

[Crimson93Ty]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

I've been digging through the archives on here and it looks like there are a few guys that have the tuning down to an art. Running mild combinations with bolt on heads (L-35s) running 11's. Everything I've read, guys ask, how big a turbo can I fit, what cam, I want to make 600 HP, etc. None of them talk about their transmission or the rear end. But then I see guys that can't keep a 700 in a STOCK build. It does not appear that the 4L80 should be reserved just for the guys doing 11 seconds or better....but it looks like the 11 second club will be quickly expanding :tup:
As far as 50 runs then a rebuild....when I talked about the size of the clutches in a 4L80E, that was why I mentioned it. My bet is that a 4L80E could go several seasons with just fluid changes just based on the size/capacity of the clutches. It's a VERY simple trans as well. It's basically a TH400 with an additional planetary set and a overrun and overdrive clutch housings. So if you've done a TH400, I'm pretty confident you could do a 4L80E build yourself.

 

[Jer]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

I musta misunderstood as I thought you wanted to know what other issues besides the controller would need to be addressed to install an 80E. My bad.

To answer your question (I think) theres nothing really wrong with any of the controllers that Ive seen so far other than they can be pricey (500-1200 bucks depending on which one). I guess what I should have said is that if you blow up 2 or 3 built 700s then you start approaching the same cost as if you installed an 80E to begin with not counting the aggravation of R&Ring the trans after you blow them up.

Gotcha.

I knew about the price of them, just wanted to make sure they didn't crap out or something too.

 

[Crimson93Ty]

Re: 4L80E as replacement

Older 4L80E's had an EXTREME overpressurization issue where it would physically crack the case(excess of 600psi). Sonnax and Transgo HD2 kit's both offer fixes to the issue.
If you get a 1999 or new core, you will get MANY improvements. Planetary gearsets were widened by 10%, manual band was widened, there was input shaft imrovements and a connecting shaft that had some holes deleted from it so the lube system was updated as well. Stands out because you will have this little short lube line going to the rear instead of the LONG lube line transversing the whole transmission. Accumulators were updated as well as the wiring to keep guys from bending the pins when installing them.
So try to get a 1999 core or newer(Its all in the ATSG). Remember, don't just go to the junkyard and throw one in. That unit most likely came out of a truck that weighed 4X what yours does and towed 5th wheels with 3 or 4 cars on them with NO maintenance. It must be rebuilt and cleaned up. :2cents:
One last thing to ponder, the 4L80E was used in passenger BUS applications as well. If you don't think that will hold up forever in a syty app your smoking crack. :rotf: