Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain :)

[Hemi Who?]

So it's time to start working over my front drive train, and I need some ideas. I have the following needs:

- Able to hold 1000+ hp, and still allow me to sleep at night.

- Street friendly (no spools)

I have little budget restrictions, and am more interested in reliability and driveability. My wallet is beat up as it is, so I figure a little more won't hurt

I've read a ton of posts in this section, and the opinions seem to be all over the place, so I'm very interested in what this thread will yield.

Hemi Who?

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

v8

 

[Skyhighsami]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

V8 what from the look of his signature he already has a badass setup.

 

[mattw]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

He didn't say anything about the engine he said front drive train..

Hemi Who have you seen this thread?

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54393

He is using a full size front diff from a 96 silverado.. Looks like an interesting idea. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.


-Matt

 

[Maxtor]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

The stock front drivetrain has been used in some pretty high horsepower builds with good results. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Robert still has the front diff and transfer case and I know Hoover did running a 9 flat. Hoover had some problems breaking front drivetrain parts but their launch was best described as violent.

I also believe the V8 AWD C3 Vette that has been on here from Poland is using the stock transfer case and front diff/axles running 8's. Obviously, the front propshaft needs to be upgraded no matter what you do.

FWIW, I've never had front drivetrain problems in my truck. I have a Mark Williams 12 bolt rear end, but the front parts including the transfer case are stock. BUT, I'm not putting down 1000 horsepower either .

HTH.

 

[STORM TROOPER]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

v8

v8 yor diff :rotf: :rotf: ...renz your up! :tup:

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

v8 yor diff :rotf: :rotf: ...renz your up! :tup:

who are you again? :squint:

 

[Hemi Who?]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

The stock front drivetrain has been used in some pretty high horsepower builds with good results. Someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe Robert still has the front diff and transfer case and I know Hoover did running a 9 flat. Hoover had some problems breaking front drivetrain parts but their launch was best described as violent.

I also believe the V8 AWD C3 Vette that has been on here from Poland is using the stock transfer case and front diff/axles running 8's. Obviously, the front propshaft needs to be upgraded no matter what you do.

FWIW, I've never had front drivetrain problems in my truck. I have a Mark Williams 12 bolt rear end, but the front parts including the transfer case are stock. BUT, I'm not putting down 1000 horsepower either .

HTH.

That does help a lot. I'm wondering how the launches will compare to the Hoovers though, as my plans are to come off a two step / transbrake at a pretty good boost level, and make it stick. I'd really hate to lose a a $ race because a part broke that I could have potentially upgraded.

I'd love to talk to Robert, but based on this thread:

http://syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54556

He doesn't seem to be keen on sharing information. I know that Matt Hoover used to post on the board, but it doesn't look like he is very active anymore. Does anyone have a good way of contacting him? I'd *LOVE* to pick his brain...

Thanks

 

[Hemi Who?]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

He didn't say anything about the engine he said front drive train..

Hemi Who have you seen this thread?

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54393

He is using a full size front diff from a 96 silverado.. Looks like an interesting idea. I'm anxious to see how it turns out.


-Matt

Unless the exterior dimensions of that front diff are identical to the stock one, I don't think I could make it work with the custom oil pan I have. Very interesting build though

 

[JSM]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

The stock diff has proven to not be as weak as you think in a AWD app. Robert leaves on a trans brake.

I would suggest pulling it apart and going through it just to be sure.

 

[Hemi Who?]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

The stock diff has proven to not be as weak as you think in a AWD app. Robert leaves on a trans brake.

I would suggest pulling it apart and going through it just to be sure.

Sounds like a good idea. Do you know if anyone has done any heat or cryo treating on the diff parts? Just trying to think about potential ways to strengthen parts...

 

[JSM]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

Not that I know of. From my experience the weak link is the bearings inside, based on my old sy. It wasn't from power though, probably lack of fluid.

I would think one setup right, held into the frame well and good lube inside (year I forgot to fill one up once) and you will be OK. Not to say it can't break though.

You might consider changing to 3.08's also, turbos like those gears.

 

[Maxtor]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

That does help a lot. I'm wondering how the launches will compare to the Hoovers though, as my plans are to come off a two step / transbrake at a pretty good boost level, and make it stick. I'd really hate to lose a a $ race because a part broke that I could have potentially upgraded.

I'd love to talk to Robert, but based on this thread:

http://syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54556

He doesn't seem to be keen on sharing information. I know that Matt Hoover used to post on the board, but it doesn't look like he is very active anymore. Does anyone have a good way of contacting him? I'd *LOVE* to pick his brain...

Thanks

I would try Matt's email at:

matthoover34@hotmail.com

Matt was the driver of the truck and I know he helped his dad a lot but didn't get into a lot of the technical details. Jim (his dad) built the truck and is probably who you want to talk to about specific drivetrain parts. I *think* they only broke the front diff. once towards the end of their ownership when they were gunning for 8's and that truck saw a lot of hard launches. Not sure about the transfer case.

The realistic 60' limit seems to hover somewhere around 1.4x with these setups with 1.5x being more common for a built truck. I think Hoover may have cut an occasional 1.3x. The people leaving hard (with traction) really seem to fight suspension setup issues as the vehicle tends to "hop" around after launch. Not sure what you do to plant the vehicle better. I don't ever see Robert leaving hard which makes his launches look smooth. He hit 157MPH with a 1.6x 60'. The Vette I mentioned earlier hit 170MPH with a fairly mild launch.

Like Jeff said, I would at least pull the transfer case/diff apart and go through it. The good news is, the stock parts are still pretty easy to come by and won't break the bank.

Good luck.

 

[Windedv6]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

One of the things that has be discussed over the past several years watching Hoovers', Eds, Roberts and others is that there becomes a point with an AWD is going to be overpowered and can't put enough weight on the four corners. The transferable weight on our four corners is not enough and our AWD trucks tend to unload the small hit we get very quickly and "floats".

I am not telling anyone here anything new, but I tend to believe that some are reaching that "float" point on the launch and then having to carry the extra weight the rest of the way down the track. Don't get me wrong, the AWD is awsome (to a point) and a mean street competitor in every sense. But on a well prepped track transfering as much weight as possible to two larger rear tires is going to have an avantage with high hp to weight vehicles.

I think you will have trouble coming out at a high boost on a high hp build. I doubt if any of us can stick the front hard enought to bust the diff.

John

 

[Hemi Who?]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

You might consider changing to 3.08's also, turbos like those gears.

Funny you mention that. I ended up taking a different path to get to the same place Instead of going with a 3.08 rear gear, I have a custom 2.10 1st / 1.40 2nd /gearset in the 4L80E that will let the turbo sit in the power band for a nice while

As for being able to launch the truck hard, I agree that it looks to be a difficult proposition. I'm going to try this with Battle Bars, Flex-A-Forms, and QA1's first, and if that doesn't work, I'll 4 link the thing.

At the end of the day, what ever it takes to make this truck work and work well, it will be done

 

[JSM]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

As john said at some ET point the AWD becomes a hinderance not help.

But what fun would it be without AWD. On the street now that is something different, most drag cars loose .5 seconds on street, we don't.

i am curious how my setup turns out, but I guess I need to get brakes put on first so I can drive it and find out. hmmmm sounds like I should do that soon.

 

[Maxtor]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

I'm going to try this with Battle Bars, Flex-A-Forms, and QA1's first, and if that doesn't work, I'll 4 link the thing.

I have traction bars, flex-a-forms, and adjustable shocks and I still have issues. Like John said, there just isn't enough weight transfer with a high HP build to keep everything planted with the AWD.

Good luck, keep us posted on how you come out.

 

[Hemi Who?]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

As john said at some ET point the AWD becomes a hinderance not help.

But what fun would it be without AWD. On the street now that is something different, most drag cars loose .5 seconds on street, we don't.

i am curious how my setup turns out, but I guess I need to get brakes put on first so I can drive it and find out. hmmmm sounds like I should do that soon.

Well, I think the hinderance we are running into is the FWD part of our drivetrain. I'm assuming we can't get beyond the 1.4/1.3 60 foot times because we have to partially fight AGAINST the natural weight transfer of launching a car (or truck in this case).

Not to take my own thread off topic, but I wonder if varying the power transfer to something closer to a 70 rear / 30 front split would help our launch. We could allow more weight transfer to the rear to help get the 70% to the ground, without spinning the fronts. Only question is, how to accomplish that...

Also, JS, what new setup are you working on?

 

[JSM]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

Also, JS, what new setup are you working on?

Look for Project Never Ends thread. Should be more details there.

Few pics from nats were posted also.

But basically is a triangulated 4 link rear (gotta redo some things already and have not driven it yet), coilover front. 80e transbrake, line locks also.

 

[mhoover]

Re: Help me build a bullet proof front drivetrain

That does help a lot. I'm wondering how the launches will compare to the Hoovers though, as my plans are to come off a two step / transbrake at a pretty good boost level, and make it stick. I'd really hate to lose a a $ race because a part broke that I could have potentially upgraded.

I'd love to talk to Robert, but based on this thread:

http://syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=54556

He doesn't seem to be keen on sharing information. I know that Matt Hoover used to post on the board, but it doesn't look like he is very active anymore. Does anyone have a good way of contacting him? I'd *LOVE* to pick his brain...

Thanks

IM HERE GUYS! LOL

Ive been extremely busy with my gym!

Any Qs you guys have ill be glad to answer ur em! Had consistant 1.35 60' (hopping

) with a stock transfer case, front axles and diff. The biggest prob was the prop shaft. We snapped it several times b4 we put a Ty shaft in and had no probs after that.
damn i miss leavin the line in that truck! gives me goose bumps thinkin bout it!

MATT