Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

[STiffler]

I'm relatively new to the SyTy world. I owned a sweet (mostly stock) Sy earlier in the year, but besides the high dollar purchase price...I decided it was more than I wanted to spend to mod it the way I needed to.

I "happened" upon a local Ty for sale, and decided to buy it, being that I got a good price on it, and it's got lots of key mods. 120K on the chassis, interior is in very good shape. Body is straight, no body rust (except a couple of micro surface spots on the paint). Paint is a bit oxidizied, but can probably come back with a sweet major buffing. Rancho suspension, rides tight and straight. Motor rebuilt about 5K miles ago! Tranny rebuilt about 20K miles ago.

The catch is that the turbo (25G) is toast. It's makes 1 lb of boost. Right now, it's got about 80 hp. It whistles upon revving (in park), and is definitely sick. Because it's got so little power, I think that it's blocking the exhaust. It feel very choked. Maybe the shaft broke? So I'm very anxious to replace it, and would like some tips on popular turbos with this combo.


Lightly ported Vortec heads with bigger valves and roller rockers
Crane 412 cam
Stock bottom end
HUGE FMIC
50 lbs injectors
MSD ignition

The toasted turbo is a Hahn Racecraft 25G with a TD06 exhaust wheel, and 10 cm turbine housing.

Stock TC.

So...qualified opinions only please...should I just have it rebuilt (by Hahn)? I had a TE44 turbo in my Grand National (with Champion aluminum heads), and I loved it.

I'm really interested in just building it for the street. So I don't necessarily want a fat turbo, even if the heads would make more with a race tune, fuel, and boost. I want it to spool quick and getty up on the street on pump gas (maybe a little zylene/MMO for 94 octane).

So...your thoughts?

 

[Jimmy]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

I'm relatively new to the SyTy world. I owned a sweet (mostly stock) Sy earlier in the year, but besides the high dollar purchase price...I decided it was more than I wanted to spend to mod it the way I needed to.

I "happened" upon a local Ty for sale, and decided to buy it, being that I got a good price on it, and it's got lots of key mods. 120K on the chassis, interior is in very good shape. Body is straight, no body rust (except a couple of micro surface spots on the paint). Paint is a bit oxidizied, but can probably come back with a sweet major buffing. Rancho suspension, rides tight and straight. Motor rebuilt about 5K miles ago! Tranny rebuilt about 20K miles ago.

The catch is that the turbo (25G) is toast. It's makes 1 lb of boost. Right now, it's got about 80 hp. It whistles upon revving (in park), and is definitely sick. Because it's got so little power, I think that it's blocking the exhaust. It feel very choked. Maybe the shaft broke? So I'm very anxious to replace it, and would like some tips on popular turbos with this combo.


Lightly ported Vortec heads with bigger valves and roller rockers
Crane 412 cam
Stock bottom end
HUGE FMIC
50 lbs injectors
MSD ignition

The toasted turbo is a Hahn Racecraft 25G with a TD06 exhaust wheel, and 10 cm turbine housing.

Stock TC.

So...qualified opinions only please...should I just have it rebuilt (by Hahn)? I had a TE44 turbo in my Grand National (with Champion aluminum heads), and I loved it.

I'm really interested in just building it for the street. So I don't necessarily want a fat turbo, even if the heads would make more with a race tune, fuel, and boost. I want it to spool quick and getty up on the street on pump gas (maybe a little zylene/MMO for 94 octane).

So...your thoughts?

Maybe a bad turbo to IC or IC to TB connection?


You sure the turbo is bad?

 

[alwayswantedone]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

I had a similar problem a while back with my ty. Turned out being a clogged cat.

 

[ViciousV6]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Age: 42
Posts: 40
Trader Rating: (0) Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm relatively new to the SyTy world. I owned a sweet (mostly stock) Sy earlier in the year, but besides the high dollar purchase price...I decided it was more than I wanted to spend to mod it the way I needed to.

I "happened" upon a local Ty for sale, and decided to buy it, being that I got a good price on it, and it's got lots of key mods. 120K on the chassis, interior is in very good shape. Body is straight, no body rust (except a couple of micro surface spots on the paint). Paint is a bit oxidizied, but can probably come back with a sweet major buffing. Rancho suspension, rides tight and straight. Motor rebuilt about 5K miles ago! Tranny rebuilt about 20K miles ago.

The catch is that the turbo (25G) is toast. It's makes 1 lb of boost. Right now, it's got about 80 hp. It whistles upon revving (in park), and is definitely sick. Because it's got so little power, I think that it's blocking the exhaust. It feel very choked. Maybe the shaft broke? So I'm very anxious to replace it, and would like some tips on popular turbos with this combo.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Just worked on Chromy's Truck we thought it was the turbo but turned out to be the Cat was clogged too!

best advice unbolt the downpipe from Turbo usually without anything you can keep a space in between flange and turbo and take for ride it was night and day is how i knew it was a turbo or you could have a exhaust leak or intercooler pipe loose casue the boost to escape.

Also can pull the inlet hose off the turbo and move the turbine to see if it is loose if the turbo blew it would smoke everywhere casue oil and antifreeze would be burning in the exhaust side.

Ralph
ViciousV6

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

I had a similar problem a while back with my ty. Turned out being a clogged cat.

When you say you had the same problem...because of the clogged cat, you weren't able to build *any* boost? And what was the cat clogged with?

I'm almost thinking that that could be it...it really feels choked off... Besides the fact it's not building boost, it's a huge dog....no power. The motor itself sounds very healthy at idle, and while revving in park...one might not even detect any problem at all if it weren't for the whining of the turbo. But put it in gear, and the thing can barely get going. A clogged cat would make sense, even though I'm not sure that that could toast the turbo, which again, does really sound very sick.

The guy I bought it off of said he took off the intake and it does spin, and based on the whining (similiar, but not exactly like a normal turbo whistle).

But clogging is a good proposal...when the motor is at idle, I've put my hand at the end of the exhaust pipe, and it just seemed like too little exhaust was coming out. It's not really a highly experienced opinion, as I haven't officially done that to other cars in the past. But I just feel like too little exhaust is coming out. But that in itself doesn't make sense...it has to be going somewhere if it's not coming out the tail pipe...and the exhaust system doesn't have any major leaks...everything sounds quiet.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

Maybe a bad turbo to IC or IC to TB connection?

:stupid: I would check the hose clamps to see if they are tight and if not make sure he hoses haven't split.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

So you bought Rob's truck? I talked to him yesturday I think and he said there was a guy over there looking at it. Sounds like a leak to me, Ild do a leak test before you go swapping turbos. BTW, Ive never ehard of a 25g turbo, are you sure its not just a 20g?

 

[ViciousV6]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

1st: Pull the inlet hose to the turbo and spin the turbine if it feels tight and very little play back and forth! Answer: Turbo is fine!
2nd: Check all the turbo to intercooler to throttle body hoses and clamps if you were to rev it up and stick your hands around the hoses you will hear and feel the leak!
3rd: Chromy truck's turbo was making funny noise try to blow 600 cfm something that only will take 100cfm you will make noise too. Like i said earlier other than taking the cat off and checking it unbolt the 3 or 4 bolts depending on the downpipe and if the thing comes alive you know what it is.

The cat gets clogged from running too rich! It doesn't take long either to clog it if thats the problems.

Go with NO CAT. or get it GUTTED!

Ralph
ViciousV6

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

Thanks, guys.

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

So you bought Rob's truck? I talked to him yesturday I think and he said there was a guy over there looking at it. Sounds like a leak to me, Ild do a leak test before you go swapping turbos. BTW, Ive never ehard of a 25g turbo, are you sure its not just a 20g?

Yes, I did, and that must have been me. But I bought it Friday, not yesterday. Are you Mike? If so, are you the guy I met once after buying the low miles Sy earlier last year?

The guys at Revolutions Tuning recommended a leak test too, but having had many a GN, I'm fairly familiar with them. And besides, that means when the turbo does build boost (assuming the leak is between the turbo and TB), it leaks out...but the turbo would still build boost. Rob thought that maybe it was a crack in one of the headers, and/or a leak at the union of the crossover pipe. Both I and the guys at RT don't think that those leaks are nearly big enough to cause a total loss of boostage. They're so small, you can't even hear anything...I've had header and exhaust leaks, and things get a lot louder really quick in such cases.

I'll pull the intake, check the turbo (as I said, the seller told me it still spins) and check out the cat. I still have a feeling it's the turbo (unless a clogged cat could cause a sick sounding turbo), because Rob said it happened suddenly one day. I would think a clogged cat would be a gradual thing.

I'm no turbo expert, but I'm under the impression that it's possible for the turbo to still spin, but still be toast. Yes, I've encountered seized turbos that don't move...that's an easy one.

25G turbo:
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/s25g.htm

 

[abqsy2194]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

check the vaccuum lines ifs they cracked or fell off its gonna be extremely hard to build boost and the truck will be a PITA to get up to speed

 

[Black Knight]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

The guys at Revolutions Tuning recommended a leak test too, but having had many a GN, I'm fairly familiar with them. And besides, that means when the turbo does build boost (assuming the leak is between the turbo and TB), it leaks out...but the turbo would still build boost.

Not necessarily,

You can't trust the factory boost guage because it not accurate. So if your using an aftermarket gauge depending on where the gauge is getting its reading from ( most tap the upper manifold for it ) then if all the boost is leaking out somewhere ( I/C connection, crack in I/C, whatever ) it isn't going to read squat but will still make boost.

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

Not necessarily,

You can't trust the factory boost guage because it not accurate. So if your using an aftermarket gauge depending on where the gauge is getting its reading from ( most tap the upper manifold for it ) then if all the boost is leaking out somewhere ( I/C connection, crack in I/C, whatever ) it isn't going to read squat but will still make boost.

Trust me, it's not making boost. It has a sweet digital boost guage ($350-400, so I'm told from two sources)...I don't know where it's reading from, but it doesn't matter. If it were making boost, I would hear a massive woosh of air. I know...several times throughout the years, I've had hoses pop off, and anyone on the block would turn their head, hearing a very loud...blowing! Plus, it' obvious that the hoses to the intake hoses from the turbo to the TB look good. Any leak would be minor, still audibly detectable...so I believe.

I could be wrong, but I'd be very surprised...I will check all the hoses to be sure. The seller said he checked them, but again, a blown hose or major leak (one that would cause it to lose ALL "turbo" power) is perfectly obvious to those of us with functioning ears.

I'm on daddy duty at the moment, but may have an hour or two to troubleshoot later today.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

You are wrong. Especially with an aftermarket A2A set up. Trust me, I know. Ive had to weld and bead roll every pipe I have. However, Rob had a bead roller and Im sure he did that. But I had some boost leaks that did NOT blow the pipes apart and you could NOT hear. This was what had brought me to make my own leak tester. How much experience does Revolutions have with SYTY's? Just curious if you know or not. Rob did mention something about the Xove tube constantly coming apart. Check for exhaust soot around it, that could very well be whats leaking. Yeah I knew who you were when I saw this post, that it was funny you happened to buy Robs truck the other day while i was talking to him and I didnt even know who it was.

 

[TYTILIDIE]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

Y

25G turbo:
http://www.hahnracecraft.com/hahn/parts/s25g.htm

That seems like a nice turbo. Ild ask you how it feels but....

 

[alwayswantedone]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

When you say you had the same problem...because of the clogged cat, you weren't able to build *any* boost? And what was the cat clogged with?

I'm almost thinking that that could be it...it really feels choked off... Besides the fact it's not building boost, it's a huge dog....no power. The motor itself sounds very healthy at idle, and while revving in park...one might not even detect any problem at all if it weren't for the whining of the turbo. But put it in gear, and the thing can barely get going. A clogged cat would make sense, even though I'm not sure that that could toast the turbo, which again, does really sound very sick.

The guy I bought it off of said he took off the intake and it does spin, and based on the whining (similiar, but not exactly like a normal turbo whistle).

But clogging is a good proposal...when the motor is at idle, I've put my hand at the end of the exhaust pipe, and it just seemed like too little exhaust was coming out. It's not really a highly experienced opinion, as I haven't officially done that to other cars in the past. But I just feel like too little exhaust is coming out. But that in itself doesn't make sense...it has to be going somewhere if it's not coming out the tail pipe...and the exhaust system doesn't have any major leaks...everything sounds quiet.

Mine acted similarly. It didn't build boost properly and didn't have the power it should have. I went thru a bunch of stuff first and then (don't know why we didn't think of it earlier before wasting money) we decided to unbolt the dump and all fixed. Very loud and the boost was way too high but finally the problem was found for my truck anyway. As far as what the cat was clogged with I do not know for sure. I would assume what Ralph said was part of it and the fact that my turbo was in the process of going and leaking some oil was the other part if I was to guess. I just cut it off ran a bar thru it to gut it and found a shop to put a pipe straight thru it and weld it back in place.

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

You are wrong. Especially with an aftermarket A2A set up. Trust me, I know. Ive had to weld and bead roll every pipe I have. However, Rob had a bead roller and Im sure he did that. But I had some boost leaks that did NOT blow the pipes apart and you could NOT hear. This was what had brought me to make my own leak tester. How much experience does Revolutions have with SYTY's? Just curious if you know or not. Rob did mention something about the Xove tube constantly coming apart. Check for exhaust soot around it, that could very well be whats leaking. Yeah I knew who you were when I saw this post, that it was funny you happened to buy Robs truck the other day while i was talking to him and I didnt even know who it was.

I guess I should've better clarified that I'm not saying that there aren't leaks that can exist without being heard. Are you saying that the leak you had, which you couldn't hear, produced a state of zero boost?

Remember when you and I went for a drive in my Sy? And the hose blew off? We both knew it in a second. Well...I told you within 2 seconds that I knew what it was...that a hose had blown off. It was louder'n hell.

Anyway, hey Mike! Good to know you're on the board. We'll see what we discover to be the culprit. My bet is it's still the turbo. Though maybe I wouldn't place any bets...though there was no obvious intake piping leak, as I think about it...it did seem that there was a slight hissing sound somewhere....difficult to distinquish a sick turbo from a leak.

I'm not sure about Revolutions Tuning (or now "Revolutions Performance") experience with SyTy's, but they've got tons of experience with the broad range of performance cars. I've seen twin turbo Mustangs in there...Turboized Honda's STi's...but LOTS of major projects. I have lots of respect for Adam and Matt there, and they recommended a leak test too.

I'd say that specific experience with SyTy's would come into play most when it comes time for tuning/chip burning. This problem could happen to any turbo car, and that, they have lots of experience with. Now that I think about it...I'm not sure I've seen anything but turbo cars in their shop. And their business is doing great...they're booked up for the next couple weeks....had at least 6 cars in there two days ago. I'm happy for them, and I think they'll be successful.

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

Okay...we have strong evidence of a toasted turbo. I just took off the exit pipe (pipe exiting turbo, heading to the IC), and what do we got? LOTS of oil. Am I wrong, or does that indicate a toasted turbo?

I'm assuming that also means the next thing I do is change the oil, and not start it until a new turbo is installed?

 

[Black Knight]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

I'm assuming that also means the next thing I do is change the oil, and not start it until a new turbo is installed?

That's what i would do, glad to see you found the problem.

Can Revolutions Performance rebuild the turbo for you or do they just sell them?

 

[STiffler]

Re: Just Bot a Ty...Turbo Advice Requested

That's what i would do, glad to see you found the problem.

Can Revolutions Performance rebuild the turbo for you or do they just sell them?

No, I don't think they can.

I was just going to send it straight back to Hahn Racecraft. I'm not usually a "rebuilded" kind o' guy, but this is a lower budget project, so I figure that a rebuild straight from the maker would be pretty good...and save me maybe $300?