Sy with 4L80E!

ed hess

ed hess

race or get outta the way
Most here would want more than that.

Its not like any of us has a sponsor that can throw big bucks into them for us!

lets see i want to make about 5 runs / week. 52 weeks a year for 2 years.

so i need a trans that will last for at least 520 runs. If its more great!

any one do that with constant 10's or 11's?

dont think so, maybe with slower times....

ed
 
G

GEN3Typhoon

New member
Well I also think it is a little different when you have to take it to someone to work on it.

If my truck was running 10.20 anything... and I was getting 100 runs.. seems like that is good. But again.. I am not going to the track every weekend with mine either....and if something breaks I am not going to have to take to someone to fix it.

Just because you are going to use a 4L80E or a 400 does not mean that the trans is not going to break. I think there is of course no one who would not agree both are stronger then a 700R or 4L60E...

It is no secret that I have put some jack into the 4L60E we will see how it holds up... don't get me wrong here... I am not at alll chastising anyone idea of running a 4L80E or a 400... what I think is happening is that people are reading all of these writeups and not realizing the kind of power that the Hoovers or Les, or for that matter what Ryan's truck could potentially make.. so instead of spending a bit of money to upgrade people are going to start running out and putting 4L80E's in trucks running 12.30's

Anyway just my opinion... so that is that.
 
ed hess

ed hess

race or get outta the way
>>>what I think is happening is that people are reading all of these writeups and not realizing the kind of power that the Hoovers or Les, or for that matter what Ryan's truck could potentially make.. so instead of spending a bit of money to upgrade people are going to start running out and putting 4L80E's in trucks running 12.30's <<<

Its the "potential" here that is making me do this nothing more nothing less. except for the financial savings.

if you can get your truck to run 11.9, without a dfi or custom chip tune, never try adjusting timing or fuel pressure, never installing your wb02, never running more than 21 psi while having zero knock, never having even looked at your plugs, still blowing your tires off on a launch, still running cfm restrictive water to air ic then am i doing this as overkill?

I really dont think so. If i want to get the real potential out of this with less downtime and expense then this looks liek a very viable affordable alternative to me.

Do i want to build go thru the extra expense of learning to build a trans.

How many times does it take before you get it right so it will last.

I bet hoover got tired of replacing and spending money on what everyone knew was the weak link. I bet robert thinks the same thing also.

I bet brian green would tellus if your going to do this all the time get a 400 or a 4l80e.

If somebody is fortunate enough to get a 700r4 that can last for more than a years worth of one nite a weeks bracket racing i think he would be lucky in a sy.

but it just seems to me, if you see others keep breaking the same thing, over and over why would you do the same?

cheaper and easier to just get rid of the weak link

I am allready convinced and wont look back once its in and done.

ed

for the record, 100 runs on a tranny and then have it break? ...... you decide for yourself.
 
G

GEN3Typhoon

New member
I understand what you are saying to a certain extent.. but I don't think you were making a tranny swap based on the fact you kept breaking trannies.. at least not running them at the track.

Again.. your decision.. your money... I have probably spent more on a 4L60E than what I could have bought a 4L80E for... making the kind of power that I am (not sure what that is yet) a pretty much stock 4L80E might have handled it... I am by no means saying that my way is better, etc... I think that there are some good parts and good kits out there for the 4L60's, but I understand someone like the Hoover's (the charter member of the 9 second club) and people like Les... are changing.

Oh and do I think that switching from a 4L60 to a 400 for 11.90's is overkill... ? Yes, but again your money.. I just like my overdrive when I am on the highway. There are plenty of people getting the 100's of runs on the near stock trannies running low 12's anyway... but like you said.. it is probably the last tranny you will have to buy.

I pulled my junkyard one out last night and am hoping to put the built one in.. and as for learning how to assemble... I have had to pull the tranny out once already, but that is the way it goes. It is not that expensive to work on a tranny if you can do it yourself... just time.

Hope that works for you and I am really looking forward to the NATS next year if all of these truck end up being as fast as people think they are going to be.... would be super impressive you see two 9 second trucks at the nats next year.. .or will Doc and the Hoover crew figure out how to skate into the 8's by then... ;)
 
F

FLSY2730

New member
ed hess said:
>>>what I think is happening is that people are reading all of these writeups and not realizing the kind of power that the Hoovers or Les, or for that matter what Ryan's truck could potentially make.. so instead of spending a bit of money to upgrade people are going to start running out and putting 4L80E's in trucks running 12.30's <<<

Its the "potential" here that is making me do this nothing more nothing less. except for the financial savings.

if you can get your truck to run 11.9, without a dfi or custom chip tune, never try adjusting timing or fuel pressure, never installing your wb02, never running more than 21 psi while having zero knock, never having even looked at your plugs, still blowing your tires off on a launch, still running cfm restrictive water to air ic then am i doing this as overkill?

I really dont think so. If i want to get the real potential out of this with less downtime and expense then this looks liek a very viable affordable alternative to me.

Do i want to build go thru the extra expense of learning to build a trans.

How many times does it take before you get it right so it will last.

I bet hoover got tired of replacing and spending money on what everyone knew was the weak link. I bet robert thinks the same thing also.

I bet brian green would tellus if your going to do this all the time get a 400 or a 4l80e.

If somebody is fortunate enough to get a 700r4 that can last for more than a years worth of one nite a weeks bracket racing i think he would be lucky in a sy.

but it just seems to me, if you see others keep breaking the same thing, over and over why would you do the same?

cheaper and easier to just get rid of the weak link

I am allready convinced and wont look back once its in and done.

ed

for the record, 100 runs on a tranny and then have it break? ...... you decide for yourself.
Click to expand...


No disrepect ed, but your truck has a long way to go to need a 400, didnt you just run a 11.9, that is a long way from 10.20-10.50, a super long way, so unless you really are bracket racing that truck once a week you dont need a 400, hell , les , hoover and roberts trucks are all bowtie strokers, and the hoovers run up to 7400rpm, robert said it himself, a 700 is good for mid 10s, but if you got the money to spend and are racing it every weekend, then go for the 400.

P.S. 400s break to.
 
1

100in6

100in6
let me stick my 2 cents in here for what it's worth. do i think ya need a 400 or 80E to run 11's, no i don't. i think a good 700 will do it. but... if ya don't do a lot of freeway drivin, want a much more reliable tran than the 700 so you can go out and do some bracket drag racin every week, don't outrun the rev limits of the motor with an mph thats higher than what it will pull through the quarter, and if you have had the nightmares gettin a 700 to work that ed has had lately, i think it's a decent decision. I'm not really sure i will agree that it will be slower. should be able to launch a little harder with it, and it is bunches stronger, not just a little bit. he's not puttin a stock 400 in but an auto shifting competition built one. as far as lingenfelter blowin the 700's out, they already run that sonoma (which they sold to someone and he has already wrecked it street racin) in the 9's and they did it on a 700. I don't know how much horsepower they got in that thing but it's gotta be more than me with a 427 smallblock worth 100K with twin turbos.

I for one am rootin for it to work well. for reliability at the speed levels ed runs at it should work well. aint no big deal to stick the 700 back in if it doesn't, and after all isn't what he's doin the same thing as what others are doin tryin to keep the 80 in. remember, it's even bigger, heavier I think, and I haven't seen anyone run in the low 10's with one yet. If ya don't need 4th gear the 400 has the same ratio's as sthe 80 I think anyone interested in trying one here is a tip. I know nothin bout these folks cept what ya can read on their site. patc is sellin a NON electronic manual shift 80 for about 2800 buck plus converter, and they have a lockup one. think they might be in baton rouge or someplace down south. they have the electornic version as well. it's just like a 400 with overdrive. :)
 
bigtime

bigtime

Sy-Ty Builder
ed hess said:
>>>what I think is happening is that people are reading all of these writeups and not realizing the kind of power that the Hoovers or Les, or for that matter what Ryan's truck could potentially make.. so instead of spending a bit of money to upgrade people are going to start running out and putting 4L80E's in trucks running 12.30's <<<

Its the "potential" here that is making me do this nothing more nothing less. except for the financial savings.

if you can get your truck to run 11.9, without a dfi or custom chip tune, never try adjusting timing or fuel pressure, never installing your wb02, never running more than 21 psi while having zero knock, never having even looked at your plugs, still blowing your tires off on a launch, still running cfm restrictive water to air ic then am i doing this as overkill?

I really dont think so. If i want to get the real potential out of this with less downtime and expense then this looks liek a very viable affordable alternative to me.

Do i want to build go thru the extra expense of learning to build a trans.

How many times does it take before you get it right so it will last.

I bet hoover got tired of replacing and spending money on what everyone knew was the weak link. I bet robert thinks the same thing also.

I bet brian green would tellus if your going to do this all the time get a 400 or a 4l80e.

If somebody is fortunate enough to get a 700r4 that can last for more than a years worth of one nite a weeks bracket racing i think he would be lucky in a sy.

but it just seems to me, if you see others keep breaking the same thing, over and over why would you do the same?

cheaper and easier to just get rid of the weak link

I am allready convinced and wont look back once its in and done.

ed

for the record, 100 runs on a tranny and then have it break? ...... you decide for yourself.
Click to expand...

Ed, I agree with your reasons/ Oh yeah, and it's your truck and money!
::thumbsup:: ::brews::
Next time mine breaks it's not going back in. Who drives these things on
the highway with all of the go fast goodies anyway? I won't take mine on
the highway anymore as I don't want the stone chips.
 
T

TURBO TY

New member
its very easy to blame the 700r4 for blowing all the time, but how about mabye looking at the people who are building these 700r4's. not trying to disrespect anybody but how many times did ed have his tranny by the same person? :( after first time i would have been looking for someone else to build it for me. nothing last forever not even a 4l80e. but ithink getting the 700 to last a suffiencent amount of time depends on two factors.1. quality parts, not buying stuff that is not needed.and 2. having a qualified transmission mechanic work on the tranny. the best parts do no good in a tranny if the are not installed buy a professional. plus if you take kick ass parts some back creek mechanic at some back woods shop,how will you know if those parts will even make it into your tranny? i guess my point is you get what you pay for. :-?
 
S

smeagol

Active member
I dunno, i've had this debate with myself for years. I always remember some key factors when making such decisions.

Look around at any consistent 11 second trucks, and how many have been on their 700's for a relatively long time with no problems? My first truck lasted maybe 30-50 11 second blasts. It was tired when I was done with it, and the tranny guy that opened it up was amazed it still drove. I think the story is the same for most relatively fast Syty's. Tony's truck is having tranny problems. Nolan's truck is having tranny issues. Those trucks have been beat upon for tuning & some racing.. but it's hardly been more than a season's worth. For them... a rebuild or two every season may work out fine. It may get too expensive too, who knows.

The 700 has been into the 10s.... but every consistent 10 second truck I know of, has broken multiple 700's at that level, and most owners are looking to try new trannies & trans buildups to make 'em live at that level longer. There was never any magic number of 10.50 or anything... they were just liquidated in short time. I remember a couple of years ago at the Nats and Hoover was off a bit... and he complained about poor shifts in his tranny that were costing him some time. Sure the tranny was still together, but his performance was poor (relatively speaking).

I hate to see people be guinea pigs... the 700 doesn't even do well at 10 second levels for F body & Vette guys. There are a handful, but typically those are stripped down, lighter, 1/4 mile racers. Most go to 400's, 350's, some are going to the 200r4 even, as it has some billet parts available. There are many more of these type of racers than Syty people, meaning the money is there to test & try out new parts... and those guys won't even sticking with the 700 (for the most part). Once they make the swap, they get some consistency, and can stop worrying about driveline issues for a bit. I've seen a couple turbo 400's behind several 1000rwhp Supra motors... with the right build, they don't miss a beat, and can be absolutely tortured. The local shop will warranty them for 3 years at this build stage. The prices are comparable to a mildly built 700, and trans brakes & lockup converters are available.

It might be worth looking into doing a turbo 400, then swapping to 3.08 gears, and see if there is a lower 1st gear for the 400. This might make the 3.08 gears liveable, while giving you more speed into 3rd gear. This buildup would be best in a high powered truck that sees some street use, and has a relatively fast spooling turbo (to bring the boost up for 1st gear launches). Check out what some fast Buicks run... they have a 200r4, without the low gearing of the 700 in first gear, they have 3.42 gearing out back.. and then some step up to 28" tall tires. Someone do the math... the 3.08 gearing might be a *little* steeper, but it still could work out well. If I had a fast syty, chances are i'd either be doing this, or the 4L80E setup.

I guess it is all about sacrifices... what are you willing to give up? Run the 700, and bring a trailer & spare trannies (and your Visa or mastercard ;))... Run a 400 and lose OD..... or try one of the other combos. Mike Lee sells a completely bolt in 350 that is pretty stout. That is probably the cheapest strong tranny combo I know of... no need to change driveshafts, mounts or anything. That route.. you could sell the 700 to fund the 350 purchase, or go back to the 700 if you couldn't do without the OD. Or try the 350 and if you couldn't stand losing the OD, try the 3.08 gears with it later.
 
ed hess

ed hess

race or get outta the way
Nice to see you all understand that this is like brian said, all about sacrifices, tradeoffs and compromises.

Once this is finisihed its going to be a big releif to be able to just forget about tranmissions. Not many others will be able to do that.

Having a reliable daily driver / bracket racer is what my goal is.

I beleive what i am doing here will help me accomplish just that.

The only unfortunate part of it is that had i not blown 2k with the 3 stooges I could've done a 4l80 for the amount i will have spent getting to this point.

However the 400 is proven reliable and rock solid for my application.

Is'nt that what all of us look for in any mod we do.

ed

btw I had one other very important reason for doing this.

Ya see the wife said: "Listen i dont want you doing this racing thing anymore if your going to keep breaking transmissions".

My reply: No problem hon I got just the fix for this.

( which really means She told me to go ahead and do it ) :D
 
Syborg Twin Turbo

Syborg Twin Turbo

Syborg Twin Turbo
100in6 said:
patc is sellin a NON electronic manual shift 80 for about 2800 buck plus converter, and they have a lockup one. think they might be in baton rouge or someplace down south. they have the electornic version as well. it's just like a 400 with overdrive. :)
Click to expand...

I am very interested in this type of tranny for my typhoon project. Can you shed some more light on this subject. Maybe there full name so i can contact them.

Green "Teflon Don" wrote:
Mike Lee sells a completely bolt in 350 that is pretty stout. That is probably the cheapest strong tranny combo I know of... no need to change driveshafts, mounts or anything. That route.. you could sell the 700 to fund the 350 purchase, or go back to the 700 if you couldn't do without the OD. Or try the 350 and if you couldn't stand losing the OD, try the 3.08 gears with it later.


Hay "Teffy Don"

Speaking of Mike Lee - Does anyone have any pictures of his turbo 350 set up in a truck. I would be curious to see how it looked. Funny Hartman tried to sell me this set up about two years ago.

BTW - the Scary Phoon is going to be exactly what you were talking about - just a drag truck (maybe i'll get better at the lights). I am planning to strip it down to just the bare essentials including removal of the orange paint. To bad it won't be ready for the 04 Nat's Maybe the 05 Nat's. One Truck at a time.


marty-mj
 
1

100in6

100in6
patc, performance automatic transmission corp is what it means i think. they have a big website. their number is 888 877 1008. they may be great, they may be horrible. I don't know
 
S

smeagol

Active member
marlborosyclone said:
100in6 said:
patc is sellin a NON electronic manual shift 80 for about 2800 buck plus converter, and they have a lockup one. think they might be in baton rouge or someplace down south. they have the electornic version as well. it's just like a 400 with overdrive. :)
Click to expand...

I am very interested in this type of tranny for my typhoon project. Can you shed some more light on this subject. Maybe there full name so i can contact them.

Green "Teflon Don" wrote:
Mike Lee sells a completely bolt in 350 that is pretty stout. That is probably the cheapest strong tranny combo I know of... no need to change driveshafts, mounts or anything. That route.. you could sell the 700 to fund the 350 purchase, or go back to the 700 if you couldn't do without the OD. Or try the 350 and if you couldn't stand losing the OD, try the 3.08 gears with it later.


Hay "Teffy Don"

Speaking of Mike Lee - Does anyone have any pictures of his turbo 350 set up in a truck. I would be curious to see how it looked. Funny Hartman tried to sell me this set up about two years ago.

BTW - the Scary Phoon is going to be exactly what you were talking about - just a drag truck (maybe i'll get better at the lights). I am planning to strip it down to just the bare essentials including removal of the orange paint. To bad it won't be ready for the 04 Nat's Maybe the 05 Nat's. One Truck at a time.


marty-mj
Click to expand...

haven't seen it.... I believe it just uses an adapter at the tranny output, and the length is such that everything else still lines up
 
Tooky

Tooky

Serious about performance
Yes, indeed I too was anxiously hoping to read another "Racereport from Sweden". How fast is the truck now??
 
ghettosled

ghettosled

SYTY SUPERSTORE
MJ, i think i have some pics of a few th350 conversions. email me privately, as i dont have them on the www as of this time. I think we took some detailed pics when we did phoonerlaters truck. I tried my best to talk him out of the 3 speed, but he was pretty persistant :) Atleast it hasnt broke!
 
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