Transmission 4L80E

[FLSY2730]

brian, well i hope well meet up at the nats and everyone else that helped me out and have a beer or 2. i think i am going to do the same tranny for the ty, i just cant believe the sy when i drive it now . Like you said most autos are boring but this setup is alot of fun, except for the 11.50 99formula that lined up with me at our local street racing scene , he did not think it was fun when i put 3 cars on him right out of the hole and he never caught me, everyone like WTF. and his car hooks good on the street . its alot of fun when someone just knows there car is way faster than this little black s-10 and you blow there doors off. thats a gratifying feeling, i was only running 14 lbs of boost , man i love this truck. We will be taking it to moroso in 2 weeks when they reopen and i will post times and pics. Oh yeah one more thing how much will the 4l80e built up right cost. jack ostrander

 

[GMC-YA]

Paaattt. You are getting sleepy... sleeeeepy..... you are falling deeper into sleep..... There you are.....sitting in your truck.... Imagine yourself launching over and over...in and out of your garage....up and down your driveway...much to the delight of your neighbors.....everyone on your street is cheering you on...."Go on Pat", "launch it for us just one more time" they all cry....ABC Sports stops by to cover the exciting event....you are the most recognized man on Earth or that is what the latest copy of Cosmo is telling the ladies....all the girls start crowding the fence, yelling your name with love tears streaming down their faces...Hmmm, are you going to go for it?....Can you handle it?...drink a lot of water before you even attempt to sign autographs all over their shirts and bodies...what?..she wants you to sign where?...SWEEET

There. You are the man...on the count of three you'll wake up and order up your rebuild so you can get going with new career as the most famous tatoo artist ever, using willing naked bodies of the most beautiful girls in the world as your canvas..... 1...2.........3

OK, you are in the middle lane on the 6 lane divided boulevard during rush hour and you are turning left into your favorite Mac's Steakhouse. You are sitting there waiting for an opening, any opening. Jeez. You keep seeing little ones that would be close but you aren't willing to risk it yet. Normally you would just gun it and make it with know problem but YOU know how our trucks are when you have a non-high performance transmission in them. OK, here comes your chance. A gap is coming. You even do a little brake boost but you still have to time the gap. You gun it before the opening knowing how to time the dreaded delay. The truck just barely rolls out and half-heartedly heads for the parking lot entrance. Oh man. Hurry up. Keep your foot in it if you want to make it. You are almost there…..And as you reach the unexpected Dukes of Hazard jump, um I mean entrance, your truck's turbo now kicks in and your tranny shifts to second. Your possessed truck decides to launch unabashed into the parking lot with hell's fury searching for hapless victims to mow down. You get the death clench pucker going as you roar in, standing on the brakes. Your wheels lock up in midair and everything goes silent. Everything is now in slow motion. …….. You see TERROR in the eyes of your devil truck's prey. There are kids, disembodied shoes, happy meals, bags, and purses flying everywhere. You land in a big cloud of dust, smoke and gravel and you hear screams, and curses from the agitated natives as you go skidding through their fast food paradise. Damn I hate that. Do you try to gracefully pull into the nearest parking spot during your "controlled" side? Man, those brakes don't work very well when you are still in boost as you pull into your spot do they? You now wonder what the lynch mob outside your, now sweet and innocent, truck do with a demon spawn in the likes of you. Hmmm, maybe you should just keep your momentum and just keep going, hoping your trucks dust and vapor trails totally obscure your license plate number from all your new found friends' views.

Wow, its like I was in the truck with you!! You have a very vivid imagination, and to think all that was just about a tranny!!!!

 

[rockvillespeed]

brian, thnx for the sage words, in general.
i gotta ? -
in that i just stuck a reblt 700 in my sy, witha 3200 (actual, powerbraking @ 20psi) converter, i dont want to start from scratch.
the trans was freshened stocka s a rock, by a buddy now, sadly , in a wheelchair.
anyway, i have a trans go shift kit i havent installed yet - my ? is this - as one might expect, my tcc has gotten a bit soft owing mostly to overuse of the lockup toggle i rigged. its still ok - just not crisp anymore like when fresh.
will the shift kits rise in line pressure also improve the tcc's "grab"?

 

[gooche26]

On 2002-01-23 04:30, Brian Hartman wrote:
Hey buddy,

Hey buddy. It is good to hear from you. You are more than welcome bro. You can really save a lot of money building your own high performance transmission and it isn't really that hard if you have ALL the right parts and help from someone like me. It is gratifying as well. What a lot of people don't understand is that when you do a high performance build up like Jack's, it makes driving your vehicle a blast to drive. Usually driving an automatic really blows but if you build it up killer, you get instant response at the blip of the throttle and it shifts exactly when it should. You don't get that stupid, dead hump up dwell everyone is familiar with. How many of you are familiar to the likeness of this next scenario?

OK, you are in the middle lane on the 6 lane divided boulevard during rush hour and you are turning left into your favorite Mac's Steakhouse. You are sitting there waiting for an opening, any opening. Jeez. You keep seeing little ones that would be close but you aren't willing to risk it yet. Normally you would just gun it and make it with know problem but YOU know how our trucks are when you have a non-high performance transmission in them. OK, here comes your chance. A gap is coming. You even do a little brake boost but you still have to time the gap. You gun it before the opening knowing how to time the dreaded delay. The truck just barely rolls out and half-heartedly heads for the parking lot entrance. Oh man. Hurry up. Keep your foot in it if you want to make it. You are almost there…..And as you reach the unexpected Dukes of Hazard jump, um I mean entrance, your truck's turbo now kicks in and your tranny shifts to second. Your possessed truck decides to launch unabashed into the parking lot with hell's fury searching for hapless victims to mow down. You get the death clench pucker going as you roar in, standing on the brakes. Your wheels lock up in midair and everything goes silent. Everything is now in slow motion. …….. You see TERROR in the eyes of your devil truck's prey. There are kids, disembodied shoes, happy meals, bags, and purses flying everywhere. You land in a big cloud of dust, smoke and gravel and you hear screams, and curses from the agitated natives as you go skidding through their fast food paradise. Damn I hate that. Do you try to gracefully pull into the nearest parking spot during your "controlled" side? Man, those brakes don't work very well when you are still in boost as you pull into your spot do they? :smile: <Shame on you if you know what I mean or should I say shame on me for know too> You now wonder what the lynch mob outside your, now sweet and innocent, truck do with a demon spawn in the likes of you. Hmmm, maybe you should just keep your momentum and just keep going, hoping your trucks dust and vapor trails totally obscure your license plate number from all your new found friends' views.

Now with a high performance build, you just stab the gas pedal and you dart across traffic so quickly, you have plenty of time to slow down to almost a stop to gracefully enter the parking lot. Yeah, you didn't realize the little Civic next to you is staging at the light and it launches on you BIGTIME leaving you at least a half a fender behind him. He looks to be pulling you hard to about half a car's length as you begin to push the gas a couple seconds after his amazing fast and furious launch. Time to put this rice dreamer to bed but since you didn't get to chance to do a proper brake boost, you have to only mildly obliterate him as your clunky transmission lazily shifts through the gears. With a properly build tranny, you can break loose your tires by just mashing the gas. You can even do this with a stock truck in proper tune.

The truck feels like a manual but with someone shifting for you. You don't get that mushy high stall feel from a high quality torque converter <like the 9/11> coupled with a really nice high performance transmission. The tranny shouldn't be just a mysterious box they you should just forget about as long as you can push the gas and go. There is a lot of performance to be gained from it and it allows the high performance of your engine to be fully realized and utilized.

Nice hearing from you again Jack and you are right, most of the SyTy owners are classy people that are a blast to be with.

Man reading that was like watching a great commercial on Super Bowl Sunday! I pictured myself along with you. Your wording just had me wanting to start as soon as my mouth stopped salavating (well slowed down at least). I'm itching to start. I'll definitley be in contact.

Chris

 

[dlove]

I am a relative newcomer to the board. I would not say I am a newcomer to sy/ty enjoyment. I would say for the most part everyone here has been very helpful and I would like to thanks everyone for their help and knowledge. This has made some task which could have been very difficult relatively easy. The learning curve has been very sharp thanks to the people on this board.

 

[ivanko]

Brian.

You typing way too much for a mad scientist.

Just stay behind the closed curtain.

I'll keep passing you the sandwiches.

Adam :wink: :wink: :wink:

 

[TheObiJuan]

any update on the 4l80e's??

brian, any recent updates on anything? how are you doing man...

 

[Brian Hartman]

Well, I'm working on a Transbrake for it and several other parts. A guy at GM Powertrain wants me to build a no holds barred 4L80 that is controlled via paddle shifter. He has a SS 454 Truck that is going to be prostreeted. He is putting in a custom duel fuel EFI (Gasoline and Methanol) Batten 4 offshore racing motor in there with an Aries block. Pumping it with two turbo's, he is looking at about 2,200+ on the street. He wants to spin it up pretty high so I am going to design a sump system that injects ATF onto all the gears so they don't starve and are kept cool. If you are familiar with the ZF tranny in the Porsche 928, it will be a little like that but a lot more powerful. Email me if you have more questions since I only am on the board occasionally.

Take care buddy,

 

[tyndago]

Will a 4L80e shift at 10,000 - 11,000 rpm ?

Is it mechanically possible for this transmission to shift at that high of an RPM ?

Is it electrically possible for this transmission to shift at that high of an RPM ?.


I may not take it to 10 or 11 - but 9,000 is a normal number.....

 

[tyndago]

Dave ,

The answer is yes. There is a 4L80E in Ryans Typhoon.

I was talking with Brian Green about it. He said that it was really cool how you could tune the shift points , datalog , and the line pressures with the computer.

Said it made a world of difference how much better the car " ran" seemed to run with just some changes in the trans.

 

[smeagol]

Yup it's in Ryan's truck.

Ran high 11s at 120+ mph with 10psi of boost and other issues (rotor self destructing in the distrib one run, wire melting another run).

We are slowly getting things finished and dialed in... but it is real fun playing with the trans computer & the 4L80E. I had one laptop and was going back and forth between the FAST and the TCI. Adjusting line pressure in each gear, shift points for each gear, converter lockup, whether it locked under WOT or not... it was beautiful.

We had a trans computer problem at first, as it was going into a limp home type of mode (put it in gear, it'd go to THIRD gear!), but went to the TCI and all was good. Tranny hasn't skipped a beat yet, have beat upon it a fair amount, with some heavy duty launches. Didn't get a chance to really launch it hard at the Nats, best was a 1.8 60' time, but that was barely coming out hard at all.. we've done LOTS harder on the street

Ryan's been goofing with it for a while now, and we'll probably hit the track with it again before snow. We've kind of set a goal of hitting 10s at 10psi, as it sits (no huge parts changes).

 

[UNIsackV6]

Sorry it took me so long to respond but Sean and BG are right 4l80e is in and once we switched to a computer system that works and got a real convertor everything is gooder :wink: Feel free to ask questions and I'll do my best to answer them. The unit is fully built and is mated to a NP205 all gear transfer case with an in cab shifter. I have 2HI, 4HI, N, and 4LO. Brian is dead on it is way cool to be able to electronically change your shift points and line pressures. Best thing is loggin capability you can actually get an idea of what is going on with the trans instead of well it feels like this or that. Oh yeah another way cool thing is that if you are making too much torque through 1st gear and can't hook up on say 15PSI and 7000RPM you can always adjust the 1-2 shift to say 6000RPM to keep things straight and then let the other shifts happen at say 7500RPMS. I drove it today and it was like 55 degrees out today and lets just say spool up is almost instantaneous past 3K, I've gotten a few nice chirps on the 1-2 shift at part throttle. Goal is to run what we have now and try to hit 10's on 10PSI at 6000RPMS, entirely possible once we sixty foot. Hey chippy once we get another tuning session under our belt I'm ready to hit 41!!! Next weekend would be fun??

Ryan
'92TY
Oddfire6
4L80e

 

[peterpaw]

ZR2 with 4L80E

ZR2 with 4L80E

hi there,

the moderator of technical questions in the ZR2 forum has a ZR2 with a LS 1 engine. recently he changed to a 4L80E transmission.

he is quite knowledgeable and works in some capacity for GM.

here are links:

http://www.zr2.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=000703#000005

http://www.zr2.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=000003#000002

http://www.zr2.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=40;t=000448#000021

if this is a pursuit to save money, forget it. send your money to hartman. if you are going to some super extreme engine (say +700 HP) ok. remember that the cost differential for a stock rebuild of a 4L80E is about $1,000 more than a 4L60E.

and the first gear is a 2.48 instead of the 3.06 in the 4L60 trans. that will reduce acceleration off the line.

good luck

peter

 

[smeagol]

and the first gear is a 2.48 instead of the 3.06 in the 4L60 trans. that will reduce acceleration off the line.

Having a turbo can make up for this. Buicks do fine with their 200r4 with a taller 1st gear. I know of a Syclone with a TH350 doing fine as well. Just launch with more boost, it may actually help you. Some people say that the large gear gap between the 1-2 on a 700 hurts it (harsh 1-2 shift).

 

[UNIsackV6]

and the first gear is a 2.48 instead of the 3.06 in the 4L60 trans. that will reduce acceleration off the line.

Having a turbo can make up for this. Buicks do fine with their 200r4 with a taller 1st gear. I know of a Syclone with a TH350 doing fine as well. Just launch with more boost, it may actually help you. Some people say that the large gear gap between the 1-2 on a 700 hurts it (harsh 1-2 shift).

8) With my set up I'm very happy with the taller gear, it helps me come out of hole with more control. Now that the suspension and brakes are much more sorted out I can launch with boost and it is relatively easy to keep straight. Now if I had a 700 or a 4L60 I would most likely be blowing the tires away and eventually torching the trans. I can launch on the street, no burnout with 10PSI and get NO wheelspin!!! I can't wait to feel 15PSI at the track :silly:

Ryan
'92 Ty
11.60 @ 123

 

[peterpaw]

4x4 trans eh?

4x4 trans eh?

ryan,

how do you find the truck with 4x4 instead of AWD?

have you considered the AWD unit (with that funny little motor on it) that they are using in that big caddy SUV? and i think in the Denali?

peter

 

[tyndago]

es away and eventually torching the trans. I can launch on the street, no burnout with 10PSI and get NO wheelspin!!! I can't wait to feel 15PSI at te track :silly:

Pussy..... real men launch at 22 psi.... didn't you get the memo ?


10's at 10 psi.... I thought that was the goal....

Whens the next time you are going to the track with the truck ? Nick Wongs R32 needs a drag strip pass.... If Dannys R33 went 11.66 @ 123 in 108 degrees.... Nicks car that is 200 lbs lighter and has at least another 50 hp should go decent....

I'm pretty sure its got a 10 second pass in it....

 

[UNIsackV6]

22PSI launch :crazyeye: sounds like fun :wink: I must have missed that memo...10's on 10PSI is still the goal, but like any other turbo freak I can't wait to crank it up a bit.

peterpaw my truck has a NP205 all gear transfer case with an in cab shifter and it was done 2 years ago so we were really unaware of the Denali set up but it is something to keep in mind.

Ryan
'92Ty