pinellas50
New Guy
I just put on a set of L35 heads. Everything else is stock. Do I need to worry about custom tuning now or is the computer flexible enough to adapt to these heads?
Tuning for L35 heads.
- Thread starter pinellas50
- Start date
12secondSY
Syty Killer :(
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
I would anytime you make a mod. Otherwise that mod doesnt do you as much good.
I would anytime you make a mod. Otherwise that mod doesnt do you as much good.
Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
hahah these trucks aren't mustangs so no the computer won't pickup and adjust to mods on it's own
pinellas50 said:
hahah these trucks aren't mustangs so no the computer won't pickup and adjust to mods on it's own
pinellas50
New Guy
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Yeah. I grew up with Mustangs and that's all I know. With the Speed Density system Mustangs, you could put a set of good heads on it and have no troubles.
I'm not looking for ultimate performance/best ET out of the new heads. I'm just looking not to go blowing more head gaskets or worse if I decide to step on it a little.
In any event, I'll just drive it normal for now and not get into any kind of real boost. I guess I'll check with one of the local dyno guys to see if they can mess with this thing. I had a feeling I should have stuck with my original plan of keeping this thing bone stock.
I should have asked this question before putting down the cash at the cylinder head shop and getting this thing back on the road, huh? I just seem to remember asking a variant of this question.....if the computer had learning strategies and I remember reading that it did. From there I guess I assumed that this would cover the head swap.
Yeah. I grew up with Mustangs and that's all I know. With the Speed Density system Mustangs, you could put a set of good heads on it and have no troubles.
I'm not looking for ultimate performance/best ET out of the new heads. I'm just looking not to go blowing more head gaskets or worse if I decide to step on it a little.
In any event, I'll just drive it normal for now and not get into any kind of real boost. I guess I'll check with one of the local dyno guys to see if they can mess with this thing. I had a feeling I should have stuck with my original plan of keeping this thing bone stock.
I should have asked this question before putting down the cash at the cylinder head shop and getting this thing back on the road, huh? I just seem to remember asking a variant of this question.....if the computer had learning strategies and I remember reading that it did. From there I guess I assumed that this would cover the head swap.
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Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
well i'd have to guess right off the bat that those heads move more cfm then the stockers so yea you'll need to fine tune your tune more but maybe unplug the boost solenoid(limits you to 8-10psi) until you get around to it so you don't cause any problems with actual heavy foot?
well i'd have to guess right off the bat that those heads move more cfm then the stockers so yea you'll need to fine tune your tune more but maybe unplug the boost solenoid(limits you to 8-10psi) until you get around to it so you don't cause any problems with actual heavy foot?
turbodig
Active member
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
If the heads are moving enough air to do you any good, then the fuel needs to be changed.
Despite public perception, this is true of virtually *any* speed-density system that doesn't have a wide-band control loop. There's a reason the guys that tune are faster than everyone else.
If the heads are moving enough air to do you any good, then the fuel needs to be changed.
Despite public perception, this is true of virtually *any* speed-density system that doesn't have a wide-band control loop. There's a reason the guys that tune are faster than everyone else.
pinellas50
New Guy
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Is there anyone in the central Florida area that does tunes for these trucks? The local guy who did my last Ford does just about everything including Ferraris. But I would prefer someone who is known in the community first.
Is there anyone in the central Florida area that does tunes for these trucks? The local guy who did my last Ford does just about everything including Ferraris. But I would prefer someone who is known in the community first.
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Hey pinellas50, I feel some responsibility here because I also encouraged you to do the L35 heads.
I really don't think you'll have any problems. Do you have a wideband and a scan tool to monitor the truck?
The L35s just aren't that different than the stock ones to make a HUGE difference in fueling. What about some of the Typhoon owners who have found real L35s on their factory motors? I dont remember them complaining of problems. GM didn't give them a special chip.
I wouldn't worry about it. I would get things together, run it on the scan tool and be careful (as always with any new mods) and see how the numbers look. If the knock is low and the wideband also shows you rich enough (12.0 or richer) you'll be in fine shape.
I don't feel that you will "NEED" a custom tune just to have it be safe at WOT.
I apologize if you already know all this , but I've written a guide to using a scan tool (DataMaster) to monitor for knock, check it out here: How to Get Your Stock Truck Deep in the 13's
Hey pinellas50, I feel some responsibility here because I also encouraged you to do the L35 heads.
I really don't think you'll have any problems. Do you have a wideband and a scan tool to monitor the truck?
The L35s just aren't that different than the stock ones to make a HUGE difference in fueling. What about some of the Typhoon owners who have found real L35s on their factory motors? I dont remember them complaining of problems. GM didn't give them a special chip.
I wouldn't worry about it. I would get things together, run it on the scan tool and be careful (as always with any new mods) and see how the numbers look. If the knock is low and the wideband also shows you rich enough (12.0 or richer) you'll be in fine shape.
I don't feel that you will "NEED" a custom tune just to have it be safe at WOT.
I apologize if you already know all this , but I've written a guide to using a scan tool (DataMaster) to monitor for knock, check it out here: How to Get Your Stock Truck Deep in the 13's
pinellas50
New Guy
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
You have no responsibility here Tooky. Yeah, I got the idea from you, but then I went on an assumption with the rest. I was probably falling back on my Ford expierence.
But I also understand what a good tune can bring....I watched our Ford guy bring litterally 60 hp out of a buddy's S/C 302 with nothing but a tune.
I was thinking the same thing about getting data master to check things out before I start sweating. I have wanted to get that anyway now I have a little more incentive.
My plan now is to drive it normally, save up the scratch for data master and accompanying stuff, and see where it's at. But on the other hand, data master and all that goes with it will cost more than a $500.00 tune.
These things are like boats!
You have no responsibility here Tooky. Yeah, I got the idea from you, but then I went on an assumption with the rest. I was probably falling back on my Ford expierence.
But I also understand what a good tune can bring....I watched our Ford guy bring litterally 60 hp out of a buddy's S/C 302 with nothing but a tune.
I was thinking the same thing about getting data master to check things out before I start sweating. I have wanted to get that anyway now I have a little more incentive.
My plan now is to drive it normally, save up the scratch for data master and accompanying stuff, and see where it's at. But on the other hand, data master and all that goes with it will cost more than a $500.00 tune.
These things are like boats!
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
More than $500?? You can get a legitimate DataMaster cdrom/license and the ALDL USB cable from DetroitTurbo.com for under $200. Then you just need a laptop to run it. If you don't have one, cheap old laptops can be found for peanuts. Check craigslist, ebay, anything. I have a small Fujitsu 500Mhz laptop that I got for free from a customer who had outgrown it. It kicks ass for datalogging!!
More than $500?? You can get a legitimate DataMaster cdrom/license and the ALDL USB cable from DetroitTurbo.com for under $200. Then you just need a laptop to run it. If you don't have one, cheap old laptops can be found for peanuts. Check craigslist, ebay, anything. I have a small Fujitsu 500Mhz laptop that I got for free from a customer who had outgrown it. It kicks ass for datalogging!!
Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
I agree and I should be getting my usb aldl cable tomarrow from Moates.. if it works fine with my newest laptop i'll be posting my current laptop loaded with datamaster and seriel cable up in the forsale section for in the $150 to $200 range
Tooky said:
I agree and I should be getting my usb aldl cable tomarrow from Moates.. if it works fine with my newest laptop i'll be posting my current laptop loaded with datamaster and seriel cable up in the forsale section for in the $150 to $200 range
pinellas50
New Guy
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
And I would be very interested in said laptop. You have a PM.
And I would be very interested in said laptop. You have a PM.
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Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Here's the laptop and parts I referred to.. I could even through in a second laptop of the same model that runs great... but the display goes a little nuts once in a while and I just don't have any drive to correct or pin point the issue.. either the lcd cable connection or the video card's on it's way out.. but the orignal laptop is 100% good and i've used it for the last four years to data log my truck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00981-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00978-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00924.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00932.jpg
Here's the laptop and parts I referred to.. I could even through in a second laptop of the same model that runs great... but the display goes a little nuts once in a while and I just don't have any drive to correct or pin point the issue.. either the lcd cable connection or the video card's on it's way out.. but the orignal laptop is 100% good and i've used it for the last four years to data log my truck.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00981-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00978-1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00924.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v293/boostedpimp/4sale/DSC00932.jpg
pinellas50
New Guy
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
OK. You all have me thinking now.
Could you put together a list of what I should have. From most important to least.
I data master on the top of the list? Or mabey starting of with a wide band. I was also thinking of throwing a FP guage in the mix.
Another thing I have been reading up on is Tunerpro. This seems like it would be superior to Datamaster in that it is free(as far as I can tell), does the same thing as Datamaster, and I would have the ability to actually try and tune/kill my truck myself.
What would you guys consider mandatory for a stock truck with the L35 head swap that won't be seeing anymore bolt ons?
OK. You all have me thinking now.
Could you put together a list of what I should have. From most important to least.
I data master on the top of the list? Or mabey starting of with a wide band. I was also thinking of throwing a FP guage in the mix.
Another thing I have been reading up on is Tunerpro. This seems like it would be superior to Datamaster in that it is free(as far as I can tell), does the same thing as Datamaster, and I would have the ability to actually try and tune/kill my truck myself.
What would you guys consider mandatory for a stock truck with the L35 head swap that won't be seeing anymore bolt ons?
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Flyin Ryan
hated cuz he drives fords
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
I'd say a data logging and monitoring program would be at the top.. datamaster is a hit because it's really easy to read etc where as tuner pro isn't but like you said with tuner pro you can also make changes to your tune.. but you can't do that with just an aldl cable and a laptop loaded with tuner pro. You'll need an "Ostrich" from www.moates.net to emulate your changes or you can buy the "Flash n Burn" chip burner from the same site but you'll be switching chips out with each change or tweak of tune.. that's why the ostrich is far more sense.
A wideband is always a good idea, it'll show you exactly how in tune your truck is and will make it soo much easier to get your truck into tune when making these tweaks.. as well as datamaster because you can see what effect each change has on your truck in every little way.
Fuel pressure gauge would be a good thing to have but I don't think it's needed.. you just need to make sure it's rising along with your boost to ensure your fuel pump's got it's mojo working.
pinellas50 said:
I'd say a data logging and monitoring program would be at the top.. datamaster is a hit because it's really easy to read etc where as tuner pro isn't but like you said with tuner pro you can also make changes to your tune.. but you can't do that with just an aldl cable and a laptop loaded with tuner pro. You'll need an "Ostrich" from www.moates.net to emulate your changes or you can buy the "Flash n Burn" chip burner from the same site but you'll be switching chips out with each change or tweak of tune.. that's why the ostrich is far more sense.
A wideband is always a good idea, it'll show you exactly how in tune your truck is and will make it soo much easier to get your truck into tune when making these tweaks.. as well as datamaster because you can see what effect each change has on your truck in every little way.
Fuel pressure gauge would be a good thing to have but I don't think it's needed.. you just need to make sure it's rising along with your boost to ensure your fuel pump's got it's mojo working.
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Flyin Ryan gave good advice. Start with getting the laptop, ALDL cable and connect to your truck. You can try DataMaster for up to 20 recordings free. That way you can try both TunerPro and DM if you really want. Having used both, I feel that TunerPro's datalogging is totally inferior to DataMaster but not everyone agrees.
If your truck runs great on the scan tool, low knock and you have no complaints, then the wideband, fuel pressure gauge etc. won't be nearly as important as if you are chasing a serious issue and need to diagnose it.
Flyin Ryan gave good advice. Start with getting the laptop, ALDL cable and connect to your truck. You can try DataMaster for up to 20 recordings free. That way you can try both TunerPro and DM if you really want. Having used both, I feel that TunerPro's datalogging is totally inferior to DataMaster but not everyone agrees.
If your truck runs great on the scan tool, low knock and you have no complaints, then the wideband, fuel pressure gauge etc. won't be nearly as important as if you are chasing a serious issue and need to diagnose it.
pinellas50
New Guy
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Thanks for all your help guys. I really like knowing exactly how the whole system works on the truck, what's a bad symptom, what's no big deal. I had that with Fords. But I am becoming more and more aware that this is a totaly different animal.
I spent hours last night reading on all this stuff. The sticky's in this section make me believe that I could learn just enough to get myself into trouble. I may slowly delve into this in time.
In my reading, I noticed that all talk about both Datamaster and Tuner Pro both speak of the ALDL cable. I'm coming to the assumption that both of these programs use the same cable that I have seen mainly in talk about Datamaster.
Am I correct? If that's the case, both Datamaster and Tuner Pro could both work off the same lap top/cable.....correct?
Thanks for all your help guys. I really like knowing exactly how the whole system works on the truck, what's a bad symptom, what's no big deal. I had that with Fords. But I am becoming more and more aware that this is a totaly different animal.
I spent hours last night reading on all this stuff. The sticky's in this section make me believe that I could learn just enough to get myself into trouble. I may slowly delve into this in time.
In my reading, I noticed that all talk about both Datamaster and Tuner Pro both speak of the ALDL cable. I'm coming to the assumption that both of these programs use the same cable that I have seen mainly in talk about Datamaster.
Am I correct? If that's the case, both Datamaster and Tuner Pro could both work off the same lap top/cable.....correct?
skwayb
NWSTP
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Mark has admitted that the ALDL logging in Tunerpro was just to get it working. But with 59 and the Autotune Spreadsheet, the log file exported by Tunerpro makes it a lot easier to use than Datamaster right now due to the extra flags that helps make Autotune work. If Datamaster updates thier program to work with 59 then we could make a version of that spreadsheeet to work with it. I am just not a big fan of having to use 2 different programs to tune with. It is nice to see the changes in real time in Tunerpro.
Logging in Tunerpro is getting a huge update. Check out www.scannerpro.net It is still in beta but Mark is going to roll this into Tunepro. Then Datamaster will look like a DOS Program at that point. I will make an ADX file for both 59 and 58 and I will even make you a Datamaster screen Tooky so you will feel like you are at home
. You can graph as many items as you want on one graph. You are nto limited to the 4 or 5 that Datamaster has and then you can do all kinds of histograms.
Here are some screen shots. You can make it look like anything you want. Plus the Histograms will make a huge difference. Here are just a few graphs, histograms and displays you can have. You can make anything you pretty much want.
Sample Graphs you can make
Dash 1
Dash 2
Average Fuel Economy
Spark Retard vs RPM vs MAP
MPG vs MAP vs Speed
Wideband History Average (WB-AFR vs. RPM vs. MAP)
Tooky said:
Mark has admitted that the ALDL logging in Tunerpro was just to get it working. But with 59 and the Autotune Spreadsheet, the log file exported by Tunerpro makes it a lot easier to use than Datamaster right now due to the extra flags that helps make Autotune work. If Datamaster updates thier program to work with 59 then we could make a version of that spreadsheeet to work with it. I am just not a big fan of having to use 2 different programs to tune with. It is nice to see the changes in real time in Tunerpro.
Logging in Tunerpro is getting a huge update. Check out www.scannerpro.net It is still in beta but Mark is going to roll this into Tunepro. Then Datamaster will look like a DOS Program at that point. I will make an ADX file for both 59 and 58 and I will even make you a Datamaster screen Tooky so you will feel like you are at home
. You can graph as many items as you want on one graph. You are nto limited to the 4 or 5 that Datamaster has and then you can do all kinds of histograms. Here are some screen shots. You can make it look like anything you want. Plus the Histograms will make a huge difference. Here are just a few graphs, histograms and displays you can have. You can make anything you pretty much want.
Sample Graphs you can make
Dash 1
Dash 2
Average Fuel Economy
Spark Retard vs RPM vs MAP
MPG vs MAP vs Speed
Wideband History Average (WB-AFR vs. RPM vs. MAP)
Tooky
Serious about performance
Re: Tuning for L35 heads.
Yes once you get the ALDL cable you can datalog with any datalogging program - Datamaster, Tuner Pro, etc.pinellas50 said:In my reading, I noticed that all talk about both Datamaster and Tuner Pro both speak of the ALDL cable. I'm coming to the assumption that both of these programs use the same cable that I have seen mainly in talk about Datamaster.
Am I correct? If that's the case, both Datamaster and Tuner Pro could both work off the same lap top/cable.....correct?