Under boosting

[dgoodhue]

My truck takes a while to get full boost. In 1st gear my truck will get around 10psi, and I don't get full boost until the end of 2nd gear. (as per diacom and autometer boost gauge)

On my Diacom , I don't see anything out of the ordinary other than 3-4 degrees of knock retard (which I haven't figuire out why I get it) Diacom say my truck starts trying to pulse the wastegate at approx 6psi. I have a new boost solenoid, the wastegate acuator works, and the vaccuum lines are new. Should I try shortening the wastegate rod or should I add a spring, or do I have another problem.

I have an ultimate chip so I shouldn't be boost limited in 1st gear. I have done a bunch of little stuff to make sure everything is upto par, new Turbo to IC hose, TB gasket, boost lines, I ran a line from the alternator to the fuse box (ECm was only getting 12.5-12.0 at WOT) along with all of the recommended mods.

 

[Raist103]

if you find out l=et me know please i have the same problem only 10psi untill 3rd werew it jumps right up to 15-16 w/ ultimate also

 

[smeagol]

Have either of you tried

-adjusting the wastegate rod
-adjusting fuel pressure
-opening up the airbox to see if that was limiting?

See what your MAT's are too.

What are your typical coolant temps?

What kind of exhaust setups do you guys have?

 

[dgoodhue]

Have either of you tried

-adjusting the wastegate rod

Not yet

-adjusting fuel pressure

Yes

-opening up the airbox to see if that was limiting?

No, I have a stock air box with a K&N

See what your MAT's are too.

Today its at 85-90

What are your typical coolant temps?

160-165

What kind of exhaust setups do you guys have?

Completely stock

Today, I added a spring to the wastegate at lunch. I took a quick run and my truck immediately spooled up to 13psi (before it hit 9psi quickly) and got upto 15psi by the end of first, I was on the t1 16 setting. I haven't had a chance to fool around at high speed to see if I have good boost control (or overboosting) Do you think adjuisting the wastegate is a better idea or whatever work with out boost spikes.

 

[SeattleSy#1255]

try pulling the stock air box out...I tried that at one time having a somewhat similiar problem and fixed it. Make sure its clean assuming its a K&N...I do it every oil change to be safe.

 

[dgoodhue]

try pulling the stock air box out...I tried that at one time having a somewhat similiar problem and fixed it. Make sure its clean assuming its a K&N...I do it every oil change to be safe.

I puuled the stock air box and it didn't help, right now I am fooling around with different springs and adjusting the wastgate.

 

[kwick6]

This is where you should start with the WG rod...

I wasn't sure if you knew that or not.

later,

 

[InvisiBill]

I assume that's the "1/2 overlap" people talk about. Didn't they release a TSB or something changing the standard to 7/8 overlap or something?

 

[kwick6]

I assume that's the "1/2 overlap" people talk about. Didn't they release a TSB or something changing the standard to 7/8 overlap or something?

Yeah your right I think. I heard something about that myself.

I don't give a f*(K no mo. Gonna have the external on next week. Screw that damn WG rod bull$hit.

 

[LuvBoost]

See what your MAT's are too.

101F

What are your typical coolant temps?

165F

What kind of exhaust setups do you guys have?

Mandrel 3" with Magnaflow muffler. Not sure who's system it is.

KB cold air kit.


Ok, I've been holding off on commenting here till I had a chance to run a few more tests this weekend. IE: Play with WG rod adj. and fuel pressure. I'm done testing so here it is in a nutshell: I have the same problem as Dave. Identical to a tee except I only see about 1.8 degrees retard on 104 octane. Max is 11lbs boost in 1st gear. WGDC starts to cut boost back before I hit the target under all conditions and I only see target boost or higher during an upshift. This all started after the Ultimate install. I have a boost surge at part throttle that got worse with the Ultimate. I know this is a common problem but my buddies Ty is much better than mine. Same set up less chip and cold air. Brian, have you made any recent code changes that could be causing the boost to be limited to what it is? My Diacom file is at http://zoominternet.net/~blown85z/full.gdf for anyone that would like to look at it.

 

[dgoodhue]

See what your MAT's are too.

My Diacom file is at http://zoominternet.net/~blown85z/full.gdf for anyone that would like to look at it.

I know this doesn't help you (LuvBoost)

I looked at you diacom file and noticed you have values for the 'AIR_FLOW' column, my truck read '0.0' for all values. Is my ECM fubar or this some sensor calculating this.

I also notice your truck seem to take out a lot timing than my truck does for every spark knock.

I was also wondering why the ECM introduces KR (for instance on frame 146) my truck does the same thing.

 

[LuvBoost]

looked at you diacom file and noticed you have values for the 'AIR_FLOW' column, my truck read '0.0' for all values. Is my ECM fubar or this some sensor calculating this.

I've been using DataMaster to analyze my runs and didn't see that listed there. So I looked at it in Diacom. Yep, it shows a reading. I always assumed that only worked on MAF engines. Can't think of any other way it could be calculated. Maybe someone here more in the know can shed some light on that.

I also notice your truck seem to take out a lot timing than my truck does for every spark knock.

Hmm...?

I was also wondering why the ECM introduces KR (for instance on frame 146) my truck does the same thing.

Interesting! I just looked at this run in both Diacom and DataMaster. The KR looks a lot worse in Diacom. At least when you graph it. Diacom must also show the KR before it shows the knock count. DataMaster shows the KR immediately after the count.

I also want to update my situation. Tonight I cranked the wastegate rod. I'm only showing about 25% of the pin throught the hole. It looks like my surging problem and lack of boost in first gear is gone. :lol: I don't know why the rod needs to be this short but it works! I haven't gone past T115 though. I'll do more testing tomorrow.

 

[QUIKSUV]

I have just installed the Ultimate and have the same problem with about 10 psi and taking a couple of seconds to get to target. Old chip came right up to 15 psi and held steady. I have low boost after shifts and will not hold steady in 3rd. Have not had time to play with the w/g rod yet. Just seems odd that the Ultimate has problems with boost and my other calibration was fine at 15 psi. I will continue to monitor this post to see how you guys come out. I am not giving up yet.

 

[LuvBoost]

I have low boost after shifts and will not hold steady in 3rd

What chip were you running before? Boost should vary a little depending on RPM. Did your old chip hold 15 across the board?

I need to hook up the laptop today and verify what I saw on the gauge last night. I feel good about the problems being solved though. I'll put up another Diacom run later today.

 

[LuvBoost]

Well, I lied. :-? Still have low boost in first gear but now I overboost in the others. I'm ready to try adding a spring. If I figure out something I'll let ya know...

 

[QUIKSUV]

I had a custom Hypertech chip done back in 1994 for 15psi and pump gas. My Ty has been sitting idle since 1995 as I have been playing with other projects but I am back with the Ty. The boost was very good coming up to 15 psi right away with no drop across the shifts and maybe 1 psi variation in top gear. The w/g duty jumps to about 75-80% and then stays pretty constant across a full throttle run. I will be out of town until Oct so no testing until then.

 

[QUIKSUV]

Hey Guys,

Any progress on this problem?

Finally getting to come home after 2 weeks on a business trip. I will get some DM runs and see if I can fix this thing.

 

[LuvBoost]

One thing that I did try was to loosen the rod adj up and bump the Ultimate a few pounds to make up for it. It helped the surging but dropped the boost in first gear a pound.

I've developed a tip in stumble and I've been concentrating on that. I started researching electronic boost controllers and will probably be buying one for a Xmas present to myself. From the looks of it, they have much better control over a wastegate.

 

[QUIKSUV]

Did some DM runs this afternoon with the Ultimate vs Hypertech.

FP set at 50 psi at idle with 3-bar MAP. W/G rod set at 5.5 turns from full short. Pin is about 1/2 way in the hole before inserted. 100 octane unleaded. No spark retard on any runs.

Ultimate at T1-17 has a low boost problem for sure. The w/g duty immediately drops to 65% and the boost is only at 12.3 psi at the 1-2 shift (75.7%). After the shift the w/g duty drops again to 65% (WHY??) and then the boost will dip to 11.4 psi and then make it to target half way though 2nd (17.1 psi, 91% duty). On the 2-3 shift the w/g duty again drops to 55% and the boost drops to 9.5 psi and then starts to recover but by then I have to get out of it. Revs actually drop after the 2-3 shift at full throttle because of the boost drop and TCC lock up.


Set FP to 42 psi and installed the Hypertech with 2-bar MAP. No w/g rod adjustment from above.

Boost comes right up and has an over-shoot to 17.6 psi with a 15.6 psi target (Hypertech said this is a 17 psi chip). W/g duty cycle drops to 81% and never goes lower than 79% the whole run. No boost drop on shifts because the w/g duty does not drop. Boost control is reasonable with control in the region of 15.8 to 17.6 psi. Mostly around 1 psi of variation once things settle down.

I am running an upgraded Mits. turbo with a KB air-to-air and cool air kit.

Either the stock turbo has a huge overshoot problem which requires the duty to be lower initially (and across shifts???) or I have some other problem. I don't think so because the Hypertech works pretty good in a back-to-back test. I used this chip even before the turbo and intercooler upgrade and it worked well.

Any thoughts on this? Right know my Hypertech is better than the Ultimate. Seems to me the Ultimate should control the boost as well or better than my old chip without spending more cash on external wastegate and/or stand alone boost controller.

Could be time for Plan B (whatever that is) and return the Ultimate if I can not get this working satisfactory.

No slam on the developer of this chip but I just want my truck to run quick.

DM runs upon request.

Thanks

 

[LuvBoost]

Here is an update from me quicksuv and others: I pulled the Ultimate on Sat and the low boost in first gear problem, boost surge and tip in stumble all went away. I put the chip back in and all problems reappeared. I have sent an e-mail to Mike at AR and have not heard back yet. Looking over this thread there are four of us with this problem.