do you beleive this POLL

[ed hess]

I did all my 10 second runs with compression being pushed passed the orings into the radiator. its been like this all summer.

no water getting into the cylinder

no mixing oil and water

ran like a mf'r

And ed knew it the whole time and just downplayed it.

kept having to move coolant from overflow back into radiator all summer.

just vote, dont ask any questions.

 

[J_SULLIVAN]

OTHER :lol:

 

[Mad Mike]

Pretty sure I know the answer. :lol:

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

how could you miss this?

 

[ed hess]

judging by the number of votes vs the number of views i would say there are quite a few out there that just dont know what to think of this.

So have i been knowingly racing and running 10's with one hand tied behind my back so to speak?

ed

 

[sy538]

Re: do you beleive this POLL

kept having to move coolant from overflow back into radiator all summer.

A bad gasket on the radiator cap caused this problem on my ranger, so i vote no.

 

[Tommyquest]

judging by the number of votes vs the number of views i would say there are quite a few out there that just dont know what to think of this.

ed

No Ed, people just don't care.

 

[Mad Mike]

Re: do you beleive this POLL

kept having to move coolant from overflow back into radiator all summer.

A bad gasket on the radiator cap caused this problem on my ranger, so i vote no.

No, he had the same problem with two different radiators.

 

[Tydriver]

judging by the number of votes vs the number of views i would say there are quite a few out there that just dont know what to think of this.

ed

No Ed, people just don't care.

LMAO

 

[ed hess]

as of 9 this am 6 think its was leaking and I am real lucky and 13 say it wasnt and i am full of crap.

well the truth is it really has been pushing coolant into the overflow all summer.

put a gas analyzer on it yesterday and in a few seconds HC's wet over 1000 reading at the radiator neck.

I figure since i got a pull the crappy atr headers off again to fix another crack i might as well do the gaskets while i'm at it.

spool up became real slow after 1st pass at cecil sunday which you can see in the video which shows me leaving late as i was waiting for the rev limiter to hit so boost would be there when i let go of the button.

the header leak kept us from being able to get as much boost as we set it to, and each run was getting progressivley lower boost than the setting as the crack in the header got bigger. amazing it ran what it did under these conditions.

hows that for luck?

ed

 

[Windedv6]

One of the things that let go in a stock block when pushed hard is to crack a cyclinder wall. They are fairly thin and don't like the ultra high temps that are given on the high boosted, high egt temp builds. Usually the #1 or #3 cylinder has the problem first. The crack expands slightly under the highest load/temp and creates spike/pressure in water jacket..then contracts back as the egt temps come down.

This was commom back in the pre-bowtie V8 days when we pushed the bore size a little to much in high compression builds. With our high boost build's today the cylinder compression is even higher than our old NA builds.

Our stock blocks are very inconsistant in wall thickness. People who spend the time and sonic check a number of blocks may fine a few that have few or no weak spots in them (more Nickel as some would say)....but most of the stock blocks fall short. That's one of the advantages of the bowtie block..thick walled siamesed cylinders. Our #1 an #3 cylinders tend to run lean when our intakes are pushed and thus it's usually those cylinders that will tend to crack first.

My vote is that you may have had a cracked cylinder for some time. You may not even lose a lot of power depending on the crack as it would only effect at your highest cyclinder temps. Also it could be far enough down the wall/stroke that it would not leak under the max compression area of the cyclinder. I assume you block filled 20-30%. It probably helped hold everything in place or you may have had bigger problems sooner.

When the head is off you may want to rotate the crank and check the cylinders walls.

John

 

[ed hess]

john

nothing that dramatic

it was number 5 pushing between the deck into the collant passage between 3 & 5.

so this time i'm gonna clamp it down with studs... they get here tomorrow, gaskets arrived today. I kinda think i used more than the torq rating i was supposed to use on the arp bolts after talking to the the guy at arp today.... ooops.

so i case anyone doesnt understand:

the correct answer in the poll was:

yeah it was leaking, lucky bastard

and yes i did know it the whole time.

ed

 

[THEMADTYPH00N]

I kinda think i used more than the torq rating i was supposed to use on the arp bolts after talking to the the guy at arp today.... ooops.

What did they tell you was the correct torque rating?

 

[Spinall4]

judging by the number of votes vs the number of views i would say there are quite a few out there that just dont know what to think of this.

ed

No Ed, people just don't care.

haha. Got pics of the VR-4? I'm thinking about buying one as a dd(this would be my 3rd dsm). Also, is the atr ic still for sale?

 

[ed hess]

I kinda think i used more than the torq rating i was supposed to use on the arp bolts after talking to the the guy at arp today.... ooops.

What did they tell you was the correct torque rating?

told me 70 on studs

they have a chart o their website of a page in their catalog. thread size 7/16-x stud tq = 70.

of course i'm going to reread itand be sure of thestress rating on theese studs. buti beleive i wsaw thisinthe 3rd column, for 200,000 psi

the 200,000 psi is tensile stress max for the studs, not my next boost pressure.

ed

 

[Windedv6]

They recommend a different tq spec on whether you use oil or molylube on the bolts. Since the stock blocks are not blinded tapped most builders use some from of sealant which screws with the tq vs stretch of the bolt. Studs help the situtation... as once the studs are in place the nut has a more direct pull/stretch that a bolt which has to twist.

If I recall the specs...65# tq was using molylube and 85# tq if using 30wt motor oil. I use the 30 wt oil (all of my holes are blind tapped) and 85# tq spec and never had a problem. Run a tap in each to clean for the best, accruate bolt/stud stretch for your tq reading.

When I used to use bolts (vs studs) I would always TQ to spec then wait 24 to 48 hrs and re-TQ. Gives the strecthed bolts time to relax. No matter how good you think ARP (or any bolt company) is, you will find after the first full spec TQ setting and some rest period, there will be some differences when you reTQ them.

With studs... I just spec TQ them and go have fun. Haven't blown a head gasket since using studs and cometic gaskets.

Ed....I see you O-ringed the block....whose gaskets are you using?? Also did you "figure 8"or do "full circle" o-rings. Some people prefer the "figure 8" method over the "full circle" ...seems to bite into the gasket better than having two "full circle" rings being close to each other.....this is more commom though when you do big bores and have less block material between the cylinders.

John

 

[TYTILIDIE]

One of the things that let go in a stock block when pushed hard is to crack a cyclinder wall. They are fairly thin and don't like the ultra high temps that are given on the high boosted, high egt temp builds. Usually the #1 or #3 cylinder has the problem first. The crack expands slightly under the highest load/temp and creates spike/pressure in water jacket..then contracts back as the egt temps come down.

This was commom back in the pre-bowtie V8 days when we pushed the bore size a little to much in high compression builds. With our high boost build's today the cylinder compression is even higher than our old NA builds.

Our stock blocks are very inconsistant in wall thickness. People who spend the time and sonic check a number of blocks may fine a few that have few or no weak spots in them (more Nickel as some would say)....but most of the stock blocks fall short. That's one of the advantages of the bowtie block..thick walled siamesed cylinders. Our #1 an #3 cylinders tend to run lean when our intakes are pushed and thus it's usually those cylinders that will tend to crack first.

My vote is that you may have had a cracked cylinder for some time. You may not even lose a lot of power depending on the crack as it would only effect at your highest cyclinder temps. Also it could be far enough down the wall/stroke that it would not leak under the max compression area of the cyclinder. I assume you block filled 20-30%. It probably helped hold everything in place or you may have had bigger problems sooner.

When the head is off you may want to rotate the crank and check the cylinders walls.

John




I ve been building small blocks for quite a while, seen pretty jacked up stuff, but, I have never seen a cracked cylinder wall. Not saying its not possible but I know its not a common thing. I think the cylinder walls are plenty thick. Its the same thing as an old school small block for the most part, especially when it comes to the cylinder walls.


Mike

 

[MPE Racing Fab]

gaskets!

gaskets!

From what I have seen on these motors (can relate to small block chevys) is that with the deck design of the stock cylinder heads and blocks...they are prone to moving/twisting under high torisonal loading, especially at the power levels ed is achieving, the block is actually "twisting" front to rear, causing the head/block seal to open/close, when this occurs, hot combustion gases may enter past Oring groove/step in gasket and into coolant passage, etc.

Well the wrenchman himself tore the heads off tonight and we'll leave it to him to tell you what the problem was....

aaaannnnnt...no cracks in cylinder walls....but yes we have seen this happen also-and its sometimes a royal pita to diagnose!

we'll let ed give the full scoop in the morning!

 

[jwaller]

I have never seen a cracked cylinder wall.

Mike

I busted 2 stock blocks in the middle of the cylinder wall of #4. same exact place on both blocks.

 

[Syclone#1992]

Why don't you just say f--- the head gasket, and drop the bowtie in now....