Good distributor options

Owned

Member
Took the truck in for smog noticed small miss. Noticed the cap on distributor had an loose brass connection. And found an wire burnt. Have Taylor wires which I'm gonna toss for msd. Wasn't happy with the rust on the distributor when cap was removed. Question is what dis would be recommended? I have an cam 412, mild built truck. Like to upgrade to an msd dis but hear a lot of issues. Has anyone had luck running an msd dis in their truck? Any help would be appreciated. With an msd 6a box, after installation we'll I have to change any tuning or can I get away with it? Been awhile since I've posted, if I've left anything out please chime in thank you
 

Jimmy

Banned
Re: Good distributor options

Took the truck in for smog noticed small miss. Noticed the cap on distributor had an loose brass connection. And found an wire burnt. Have Taylor wires which I'm gonna toss for msd. Wasn't happy with the rust on the distributor when cap was removed. Question is what dis would be recommended? I have an cam 412, mild built truck. Like to upgrade to an msd dis but hear a lot of issues. Has anyone had luck running an msd dis in their truck? Any help would be appreciated. With an msd 6a box, after installation we'll I have to change any tuning or can I get away with it? Been awhile since I've posted, if I've left anything out please chime in thank you

NAPA is the only place to get a dist.Didnt read your post,just the title.
 

Owned

Member
Re: Good distributor options

So far napa distributor, what's people views on msd dis? Gone through two thinking msd just had a bad patch. Anyone running an msd dis with box, coil and no issues? If so, I use an napa, still like to run an msd box. The harness for quick installation. We'll a tune be required? Adding an msd box?
 

TeeTopZ

Member
Re: Good distributor options

The common term around here for msd is " may suddenly die". Go with the Napa distributor. Not sure on the box, never ran one
 

bezerk

New member
Re: Good distributor options

if been running these cheap billet knockoff from ebay. they work pretty good! also have the upgraded gears
 

Throws

Active member
Re: Good distributor options

The common term around here for msd is " may suddenly die". Go with the Napa distributor. Not sure on the box, never ran one

I talked to one of the guys running 10s one time... still running the stock dizzy. Sounded good to me.

-P
 

Throws

Active member
Re: Good distributor options

if been running these cheap billet knockoff from ebay. they work pretty good! also have the upgraded gears

With those... I would suggest gapping the magnetic pickup properly. I had an issue with one out of the box being gapped at .060, I think .015 - .020 is about right. I had hard starting until I fixed that, I ended up ditching it for a stock type though.

-P
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Good distributor options

:rant:The dist has 3 jobs. Run the oil pump, trigger the spark, and deliver the spark. Oil pump doesn't apply here and neither does delivery. That's related to the cap and rotor. Brand of dist is irrelevant. So we're left with triggering. If the motor is hitting on all 6, under load, then the dist is probably OK. IOW buying a brand new MSD probably won't help. If the dist has a verifiable issue then by all means get a new.:rant:

My story, short ver. Truck new to me, wouldn't run correctly. Finally took it to a shop with a scope and paid fro them to check. Dist WAS bad. Buy a new NAPA. After that I always had a terrible time setting initial timing. Result: Dist was manufactured out of phase. 3rd NAPA dist has been there ever since.

Enjoy:roll:

Post 7 here

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=74937&highlight=inductor

Also if you want to get really weird the cap and rotor are out of phase a bit also. See:

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=94747&highlight=phase
 

TurboSBC

New member
Re: Good distributor options

I'm not really understanding something. What makes a syty ignition system so much different from those in a standard 4.3l S10 from the same time? What makes sytys "eat" caps and rotors when there's nothing different. I could easily swap the entire system out for one from a stock S10, which worked perfectly, and you're telling me that just from it being swapped to a Sy, now it's not gonna last and it's gonna eat itself? Why? There's no boost in the cap. It's not seeing stupid high cylinder pressures in the cap. All it does is spin the rotor and fire. So why can't it spin and fire just the same as an S10?
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Good distributor options

I'm not really understanding something. What makes a syty ignition system so much different from those in a standard 4.3l S10 from the same time? What makes sytys "eat" caps and rotors when there's nothing different. I could easily swap the entire system out for one from a stock S10, which worked perfectly, and you're telling me that just from it being swapped to a Sy, now it's not gonna last and it's gonna eat itself? Why? There's no boost in the cap. It's not seeing stupid high cylinder pressures in the cap. All it does is spin the rotor and fire. So why can't it spin and fire just the same as an S10?

Basically because when under boost it takes a lot more voltage to fire the plug. With electricity always taking the path of least resistance a cap that worked fine in any other vehicle might not in a SyTy. Persoanlly I agree with you. Almost every ign issue I've had were wire/plug related. It would be interesting to see if anyone has ever actually found a bad cap. IE one with current traces inside to ground or the adjacent terminal. I've seen one or two over the years but they're relatively rare. Missing under boost is a sure sign that the ign should be checked though.
 

Davemc1963

93 Ty Owner
Re: Good distributor options

I use the billet MSD distributor and MSD wires and haven't had any issues or at least not yet anyway. This was the best option that I could find at the time when my original GM unit started having issues. The difference between the stock unit and the MSD was quite surprising. The original unit looked really flimsy and cheap compared to the MSD unit. While I was trying to find the issue, I changed out the coil for a Summit Racing replacement with brass terminals, however, the original GM unit was probably fine, The basic symptoms felt like the coil was breaking down, but I obviously jumped to the wrong conclusion, For some unknown reason the magnet in the reluctor decided to disintegrate, causing it to misfire. That said I haven't run it for over a year.
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Good distributor options

It seems, obvious I guess, that properly triggering the spark is the key. Makes one want run out and buy a scope.

From distributors to tail lights, electrical issues drive everyone nuts.
 

bezerk

New member
Re: Good distributor options

With those... I would suggest gapping the magnetic pickup properly. I had an issue with one out of the box being gapped at .060, I think .015 - .020 is about right. I had hard starting until I fixed that, I ended up ditching it for a stock type though.

-P
both trucks are running strong.
 

Owned

Member
Re: Good distributor options

For some reason I thought MSD was top notch which they are just not onto an sy. :( I'm currently running methanol, under impression with an upgraded ignition system fuel will burn smoothly, let alone show overall performance. At this point I have had 2 msd dis fail and I returned to stock dis thinking its an bad patch and try later. What's people views with an 6al I believe? I'm tempted with the plug and go harness, if it burns out I believe I can return to stock dis. Sorry guys, what's your views on box with stock ignition? I do have an msd coil, not installed, dam it look good installed.
 

bezerk

New member
Re: Good distributor options

U want the plug and play stuff. I have a digital 6 wich once in a while causes no start problems
 

dgoodhue

BuSTeD 4.3
Re: Good distributor options

Don't use the MSD coil, it produces too much heat in the smaller cap use in the 4.3 V6. I use a MSD 6AL but I use it for the 2 step rev limiter (launch).
 

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Good distributor options

Don't use the MSD coil, it produces too much heat in the smaller cap use in the 4.3 V6. I use a MSD 6AL but I use it for the 2 step rev limiter (launch).

I don't quite understand what you mean by "heat?"

Personally I agree that the stock coil is fine. I run a 6AL w/2step. No issues with 6AL. I -think- the multiple spark at idle may be helping but that's very subjective. Few years ago I had an MSD coil that was bad out of the box. You could actually see that it wasn't assembled correctly.
 

Z SKI

Donating Member
Re: Good distributor options

Take an hour and skim through this, absorbing the pertinent parts as required. It appears to have been written prior to WW II, but is pertinent to understanding "Sparking Voltage" ie, the requirements for Ignition system capability to fire the spark plug.

What I just re-learned:

As cylinder pressure increases voltage required at the plug increases.

A gap in free air (distributor cap) requires less sparking voltage (1.5 KV) than one inside a chamber (6,000KV).

The secondary voltage of the coil will only rise to the sparking voltage, then fire, even if it is capable of rising much further.

When spark occurs, the air within the 'gap' is ionized, ie electrically charged so it conducts electricity. If the gap is very short, not enough area is present to ionize enough particles to cause the required full ignition event.

```````````````````````````````````````````
Some conclusions on my part:

"Blowing out the spark" is idiotic mumbo-jumbo. No such thing occurs. Either there is sufficient voltage to jump the gap, or there isn't. Today's reading revealed that "turbulence" plays an insignificant role in Sparking Voltage in automotive applications.

Guys that run close gaps (less than .035) and actually see an improvement (I posit that most people don't see an improvement, and are just closing up the gaps because it "makes sense" [it doesn't] and it's monkey-see, so I'll do-it-too.) have a basic ignition system problem. As cyl pressure increases, so does the voltage required to fire the plug. Once the system is incapable of producing this voltage, spark does not occur.

The higher sparking voltage required by boosted engines operating under boost will also be present at the gap in the rotor/cap. This may result in slightly increased deterioration of the rotor/cap contacts over time.

Multiple discharge spark systems (MSD) will cause the air within the cap to ionize at high RPM (frequency) and voltage (high cyl pressure from boost/throttle) to the point that the spark is conducted to all plugs at once. This is not a new phenomenon. I recall reading about racers in the 60's having to drill vent holes in their caps to prevent this ionization when using early MSD systems.

The wider the plug gap, the more power the engine will produce. Bill Jenkins discovered this in the mid-70's, and writes about it in his book "The Chevrolet Racing Engine". They ran gaps in the .050-.060 range, the limitation being able to start the engine. (Today's reading revealed that temperature has a big effect on sparking voltage, hence why Grumpy's maximum gap was limited by ability to jump the gap on a cold plug).

Last conclusion: Only 1-2 peeps will bother to read the link I provided, or this post, and attempt to understand the points I've made or outlined, whether I'm correct or not. I researched, and wrote this post because I re-learned quite a bit about what I remember about ignition systems, and learned some new stuff as well myself. (That temperature influences sparking voltage, air-gap voltage being substantially less than combustion chamber voltage, and system capability is irrelevant to the voltage at the gap).

I would like to think that others learned something from my efforts as well, but I doubt anyone other than Don bothered to read this far. If you did read this far, and even better learned something, great. And thank you.

I read it Dave.... Great information as usual!!!
 

randy merritt

Donating Member
Re: Good distributor options

I actually read the article, Dave. Not exactly thrilling reading, but informative none the less. Thanks.
 
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