idle problems (could be fixed, I hope)

[WyoSyclone]

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

Gary, I think only if you want the clutch to engage on the compressor :rotf:
that darn powder-coating! (Sure looks great though )

 

[4C FED]

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

Good info.
Thanks for figuring it out Gary. It has saved me from more gray hair.

Now I know I need to scrape the mounting points on the alt. bracket before I get the motor back in.:tup:

 

[CKEITH]

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

I would like to take this time to thank Chris and his great powdercoat for my voltage problem. Duh.... I should have known the powdercoating is non conductive. Question is does the Ac compressor need a case ground? guess I will run a smal ground just in case.

you know i like to help any and all fellow members when i can :tup: i assumed you knew that you had to clean the mounting pads....oops

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

Re: idle problems (problem fixed, you guys kick a$$)

you know i like to help any and all fellow members when i can :tup: i assumed you knew that you had to clean the mounting pads....oops

Just had a brain fart. Just was not thinking. just one of those things I forgot to think of. They look sweet I dont care. Its running now.

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess its not)

Re: idle problems (guess its not)

fixed the voltage problem but it still dies. Idles well till it hits 135-145* then it stumbles. I can see the wbo2 go lean then the computer tries to compensate and the iac counts go up and sometimes it recovers and sometimes it dies?

 

[Grimgrak]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Just when I was about to take my alt out to be rebuilt too thinking it would fix the problem lol.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

AAaarrrgggghhhhhhh, Gary, your idle gremlins attacked my Sy! I had exactly the same thing happen to me - idled fine for about 2 minutes then started going really lean, engine shake then died.. warming it up didn't help.

So, I thought about what had happened. A few days ago my battery ran down because my brake light switch was mis-adjusted and left the brake lights on all night (problem now fixed). But, the battery was stone-cold dead. I went down and bought a new smart charger (automatically goes into trickle once battery is charged). Charged up the battery, started it, and instant problem!

I found in the driveability section of the Syclone manual a paragraph that say if the battery is disconnected, or if DTC's are reset, the vehicle is prone to driveability issues, and it will take a short amount of time driving it before the ECM "relearns"... (can Dig, Paul, or Jeff confirm this?? and is it done on the limp-home side of the chip?).

Anyway, before I decided to drive it, I re-burned a chip from my Code59 work, and the idle problem instantly disappeared - I now have my rock steady 15.1 AFR idle back.

Have any of you other guys experienced this same problem after a battery disconnect? If we can hone in on what the conditions were preceding our problems maybe we can identify what's causing all of these idling issues...

Hope this helps..
...Rob

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Gary, is that about the temp that things would go from closed loop to open loop in $58? I'm sure that fixing the voltage thing helped in other ways - maybe try the other ECM now that the voltage is fixed and see if that makes a change. I do have the driveability pages out of the factory Syclone manual that talk about idling issues, if you want me to scan them and send over.

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Note:: IAC counts started at 50 with 1200rpm. soon as the idle dropped to 800 the counts went to 0. they went up to 20 when it was stumbling.??? again the volts drop from 13.9 to 11.3 and o2mv go from 880 down to 100. all about the same time.

I will try to reset the iac and ecu.
I am using a phil open loop chip. I have a smog chip that works with the 50#'s I might try. first I will reset the truck and idle it again. maybe take it out and see how it does on the open roads and idle s when fully warm. New alt has it idleing at 13.9-14.1

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

ok, reset iac...nothing different. Think its a electrical problem still. voltage dips before it dies. if i gas it to 1500rpm it runs forever. when i turn on the headlights it dips down and dies instantly. at 1500rpm it dips but stays running. sorry for all the posts but I want to get some good input. thanks. I have the battery under the bed. I will take a wire from battery directly to the block? right now it goes from the frame to the block. thats the way it was when I got the truck

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Hey Gary,
With the battery mounted in the rear, what size wire are you running to the battery on positive and negative? Where is the battery grounded?

If it was me I think I'd be running 0 or 1 gauge welding cable from the battery directly to the block for the ground, and to the frame rails. All that juice put out by the alternator has to make its way back to the negative battery post. Of course it's not putting out 140 amps at any one time, but it is capable of it.

Here's an ampacity chart.... to determine what size of wire to use... last two columns are what to look at. It's always best to use bigger than smaller!

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

I am using 2# 4's for the ground and 1 #2 for the positive. Remember I am an electrician. Thanks, I could use any help but I have that chart memorized. :rotf: The free air part it what we need. You can load up way more then whats on that chart. Trust me I have done it. I have pulled 95 amps through a #8 free air, 100 feet long with only a 3% voltage drop. I have a ground tester at work used to check building grounds at various locations. I will check it on my truck and see if I have any bad grounds. It worksed this way before the build so I dont get it. I do have some 1000kcmill wire I could use.LOL but at 3 lbs per foot I dont think its worth it.

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

I am almost ready to call it quits. grounded the living shit out of it and nothing. I give up. Only thing left is the battery. Its 1 year old and cost me 175$. It looks not to be taking a charge but the alt is throwing out 14 volts. It could also be I am starting it up so much. It strggles to start a bit more then it did before. dont know what to do next but to sell it and get a gn.

 

[MRKING]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Dont be a quitter . Swap your sy batt with whatever other car/truck you drive and rule it out . I had a $175 optima go bad in 10 days . Maybe your faulty alt connection if I read correctly wasnt charging your battery very well , if at all when starting and running .

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

everything should be good now. But the problem is still there. I am not quiting, just cant deal with this anymore. My health problem have mr stressed enough I am now on blood pressure medication along with my diabeties meds. This is making it worse. I guess I now realize I am not a mechanic Because i am f-ing lost. Next week I will call a pro over to see what he says. The $$ is worth my stress right now. If he cant fix it its gone one way or another.

I should ask this: Could anything I did with the topend build cause this condition?? Also did the fuel lines. Also siphoned the tank. could I have done something to the fuel pump? Just want to rule things out.

 

[Luke]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Just a thought,,,,I've seen rocker arms be too tight and when the lifters pumped up it wouldnt idle since the valves would not shut all the way, But after watching the video it seems to run just fine :dunno:

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

yes, for the first 2-3 min the truck runs perfectly. Starts at around 1500rpm and idles dowm by itself to 800rpm. Its running a bit ritch at idle but not to bad at 13.5-13.7 then it starts to stumble... idle bounces around, o2 goes up to 16-17, voltage drops to 11-12.5v and it eventualy dies. Starts right up easy and does it again after about 30 seconds.???? I ****ing dont get it? I have looked at the Dm about 100 times. The voltage, o2mv, and rpm drop at the same time.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Hey Gary,
Just found this in the GM service manual for the Sy. "6E3-C2-4"

"During idle, the proper position of the IAC valve is 'learned' by the ECM based on battery voltage, coolant temperature, and engine RPM.
If the learned IAC valve position is incorrect, the ECM will command a reset. THE RESET WILL OCCUR WHEN THE VEHICLE SPEED IS ABOUT 30MPH."

In one of your previous posts you mentioned that the IAC cound was at zero.. that is a fault position of the IAC.

Maybe all you need to do is go out and drive it for a while and see if it clears by the ECM relearning.

Or, maybe you have already done this..... .... just something else to try.

 

[gjp]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Hey Gary,
Just found this in the GM service manual for the Sy. "6E3-C2-4"

"During idle, the proper position of the IAC valve is 'learned' by the ECM based on battery voltage, coolant temperature, and engine RPM.
If the learned IAC valve position is incorrect, the ECM will command a reset. THE RESET WILL OCCUR WHEN THE VEHICLE SPEED IS ABOUT 30MPH."

In one of your previous posts you mentioned that the IAC cound was at zero.. that is a fault position of the IAC.

Maybe all you need to do is go out and drive it for a while and see if it clears by the ECM relearning.

Or, maybe you have already done this..... .... just something else to try.

Thanks... Have yet to move the truck out the garage in fear of it stalling out and I have to push it back. After i try a new battery, and check torque on the intakes I will give it a shot. I tried to reset the iac and last time it was showing 20-30 counts.

 

[WyoSyclone]

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Re: idle problems (guess not fixed)

Apparently doesn't matter if it's showing 20 now... still has to go through the reset process. Did you try the trick of lightly spraying starting fluid (through one of the small straw sprayers) around the manifold to check for leaks?