My syclone has the hot starting problems.I changed the starter over to a 96 tahoe starter and I also went with the ford soleniod setup with the copper jumper at the starter.The problem that I'm having is that the starter stays engaged for a couple of seconds after the engine is on.I don't think this is normal is it?
Need help with starter problem
- Thread starter typhoon92
- Start date
SY2932
Administrator
Re: Need help with starter problem
If you are running a tahoe starter you DO NOT use a shunt (jumper) on the solenoid or else you will experience the drag that you describe.
If you are running a tahoe starter you DO NOT use a shunt (jumper) on the solenoid or else you will experience the drag that you describe.
Don W.
Stab it and steer it
Re: Need help with starter problem
This is very interesting. Why run the starter current through “another” solenoid? If I were to rewire my starter I’d use the “Ford solenoid” to do nothing but provide additional current capacity for the actual starter solenoid. I believe what everyone is attempting to do here is not run starter solenoid current through the key switch which is a good idea. By using the additional relay to -only- activate the starter relay you accomplish two things. One, whatever current is required by the starter relay is easily provided by the larger gauge wire and, two, voltage drop is reduced by the shorter run and taking the key switch out of the curcuit. Putting additional battery cable and relay in the circuit that actually runs the starter is unnecessary and undesirable.
BTW large trucks use the system I just mentioned and those starters pull aprox 1000 amps on engagement and around 800 while cranking. The idea is the same, to give the starter relay (or solenoid) with as much voltage as possible to keep the starter relay closed hard.
End of rant.
Don
This is very interesting. Why run the starter current through “another” solenoid? If I were to rewire my starter I’d use the “Ford solenoid” to do nothing but provide additional current capacity for the actual starter solenoid. I believe what everyone is attempting to do here is not run starter solenoid current through the key switch which is a good idea. By using the additional relay to -only- activate the starter relay you accomplish two things. One, whatever current is required by the starter relay is easily provided by the larger gauge wire and, two, voltage drop is reduced by the shorter run and taking the key switch out of the curcuit. Putting additional battery cable and relay in the circuit that actually runs the starter is unnecessary and undesirable.
BTW large trucks use the system I just mentioned and those starters pull aprox 1000 amps on engagement and around 800 while cranking. The idea is the same, to give the starter relay (or solenoid) with as much voltage as possible to keep the starter relay closed hard.
End of rant.
Don
Re: Need help with starter problem
So, I've had this same issue with my Ty since I bought it. Essentially, solenoid stays engaged for too long. Annoys the crap out of me.
It has the "ford" solenoid, autozone number f496, and the starter is a dl 9990s. Both had been replaced with no change.
Here's a picture of the solenoid.
What should I be doing? I did some searching, found a few things, but wanted to show the particular case I have.
I see ignition switch as potential and jumper should be removed on the solenoid.
So, I've had this same issue with my Ty since I bought it. Essentially, solenoid stays engaged for too long. Annoys the crap out of me.
It has the "ford" solenoid, autozone number f496, and the starter is a dl 9990s. Both had been replaced with no change.
Here's a picture of the solenoid.
What should I be doing? I did some searching, found a few things, but wanted to show the particular case I have.
I see ignition switch as potential and jumper should be removed on the solenoid.
Attachments
randy merritt
Donating Member
Re: Need help with starter problem
Holy thread revival.
Holy thread revival.
randy merritt
Donating Member
Re: Need help with starter problem
I think your "purple" and "ground" labels are reversed from what they should be. Terminal 85 should be ground.
I think your "purple" and "ground" labels are reversed from what they should be. Terminal 85 should be ground.
9194 Tornado
Member
Re: Need help with starter problem
Does anyone have a suggestion as to what brand of relay is 'preferred' (Bosch vs AC Delco vs other brands) and what amperage rating to use as a minimum (30A, 40A, ???), and, which brands to stay away from?
Does anyone have a suggestion as to what brand of relay is 'preferred' (Bosch vs AC Delco vs other brands) and what amperage rating to use as a minimum (30A, 40A, ???), and, which brands to stay away from?
randy merritt
Donating Member
Re: Need help with starter problem
I agree with this. I would return the main power wire to the starter to the stock configuration, and use a relay. I use a 40A cheap four terminal relay. I think any brand will work OK. The starter has a "solenoid" built into it, but the problem is getting enough amperage to it to properly trigger it.
I agree with this. I would return the main power wire to the starter to the stock configuration, and use a relay. I use a 40A cheap four terminal relay. I think any brand will work OK. The starter has a "solenoid" built into it, but the problem is getting enough amperage to it to properly trigger it.
SY2932
Administrator
Re: Need help with starter problem
I have contributed to this topic MANY times over the years. This thread is pretty much the final word on the correct way to do this mod and why it is done the way that it is. It is pure tech, something that you don't see on here much these days
... My truck started up fine last week for the Medina meet with NO issues . If the day ever comes that it won't start, I will redo it as in the thread above.
I have contributed to this topic MANY times over the years. This thread is pretty much the final word on the correct way to do this mod and why it is done the way that it is. It is pure tech, something that you don't see on here much these days
... My truck started up fine last week for the Medina meet with NO issues . If the day ever comes that it won't start, I will redo it as in the thread above.
randy merritt
Donating Member
Re: Need help with starter problem
Good info here also: http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50739&highlight=ford+solenoid
I agree with Mike's statement also.
Good info here also: http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=50739&highlight=ford+solenoid
I agree with Mike's statement also.
randy merritt
Donating Member
Re: Need help with starter problem
Very true info here also.
This is very interesting. Why run the starter current through “another” solenoid? If I were to rewire my starter I’d use the “Ford solenoid” to do nothing but provide additional current capacity for the actual starter solenoid. I believe what everyone is attempting to do here is not run starter solenoid current through the key switch which is a good idea. By using the additional relay to -only- activate the starter relay you accomplish two things. One, whatever current is required by the starter relay is easily provided by the larger gauge wire and, two, voltage drop is reduced by the shorter run and taking the key switch out of the curcuit. Putting additional battery cable and relay in the circuit that actually runs the starter is unnecessary and undesirable.
BTW large trucks use the system I just mentioned and those starters pull aprox 1000 amps on engagement and around 800 while cranking. The idea is the same, to give the starter relay (or solenoid) with as much voltage as possible to keep the starter relay closed hard.
End of rant.
Don
Very true info here also.
SY2932
Administrator
Re: Need help with starter problem
If you don't have a mechanical issue causing it to hang up, it must be electrical since there's only two possible problems.
Mechanical. I must admit at in all the years that I have worked on cars, I have never had to shim a starter motor that I have replaced. If it had shims in there, I just reused them and everything worked fine. I have never had to add or subtract shims. Since you have replaced the starter and are still having issues, I would look at the teeth on the flexplate. If they are chewed up or have serious burrs on the teeth, that could be causing it to hang up and not release immediately after you release the key.
Electrical. Connect the red test lead of meter to the triggering wire of the solenoid (small wire on the side) and the black test lead to ground. Set it to read DC volts. Have someone try and start the truck. You should only see 12 volts there as long and the key is in the start position. If the voltage lingers on after they release the key, something is "sticky" in the ignition switch.
Since you bought your truck "modified" I would be suspect of anything not stock on it. I repaired a turn signal on a Jeep for a customer that was all gummed up. So much so that she broke the turn signal handle off. Turns out her ex had taken it apart in the past and packed it with antisieze. Over the years, it had hardened up and turned into a gooey mess. Some people :roll:.
If you don't have a mechanical issue causing it to hang up, it must be electrical since there's only two possible problems
. Mechanical. I must admit at in all the years that I have worked on cars, I have never had to shim a starter motor that I have replaced. If it had shims in there, I just reused them and everything worked fine. I have never had to add or subtract shims. Since you have replaced the starter and are still having issues, I would look at the teeth on the flexplate. If they are chewed up or have serious burrs on the teeth, that could be causing it to hang up and not release immediately after you release the key.
Electrical. Connect the red test lead of meter to the triggering wire of the solenoid (small wire on the side) and the black test lead to ground. Set it to read DC volts. Have someone try and start the truck. You should only see 12 volts there as long and the key is in the start position. If the voltage lingers on after they release the key, something is "sticky" in the ignition switch.
Since you bought your truck "modified" I would be suspect of anything not stock on it. I repaired a turn signal on a Jeep for a customer that was all gummed up. So much so that she broke the turn signal handle off. Turns out her ex had taken it apart in the past and packed it with antisieze. Over the years, it had hardened up and turned into a gooey mess. Some people :roll:.
Last edited:
Re: Need help with starter problem
Found the problem. It is related to what mike posted above, with the jumper.
The firewall mounted solenoid had the output going to one of the large terminals on the starter mounted solenoid, jumper wire to the starter wire solenoid too. Basically, it ran two solenoids. I ran the "purple wire" in heat resistant shielding direct to the starter mounted solenoid, and all was well. I'm a bit meticulous, so I have some stuff to clean up as far as how it were wired, but it's good for now. Going to look more into the relay setup shortly.
Found the problem. It is related to what mike posted above, with the jumper.
The firewall mounted solenoid had the output going to one of the large terminals on the starter mounted solenoid, jumper wire to the starter wire solenoid too. Basically, it ran two solenoids. I ran the "purple wire" in heat resistant shielding direct to the starter mounted solenoid, and all was well. I'm a bit meticulous, so I have some stuff to clean up as far as how it were wired, but it's good for now. Going to look more into the relay setup shortly.