stupid abs!

[atkonkler]

Found a broken vaccum line to vaccum ball underneath battery tray! fixed and drove truck for a week, brakes felt better than before after i reset the abs / red brake light unit by doing the 2 second connect and disconnect. Then bam fackin pedal is soft abs light is on and i think its a code 62or 63 set according to a&h terminals getting the paper clip! just abs light on now! anyone got any ideas master is full and i can get the hcu to cycle this truck has more mood swings than my ex with bi polar disorder! Any help would be appreciated!

 

[Static]

Re: stupid abs!

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=75060

 

[atkonkler]

Re: stupid abs!

Well i was getting a code 63! i just jumped A&H and the light is off for NOW! maybe the poop got wet when it rained? Who knows but we will see how long it stays off this time! Does anyone have the build sheet for the abs delete and all that goes with it? If so shoot me the link or ill try to find it later tonight when i get off work!

 

[MoJo]

Re: stupid abs!

I should feel fortunate. My 1991 S10 Blazer 4x4 has no codes, I have good pedal and I don't think the ABS works at all. The only way you can tell if your ABS works is to get the vehicle into a ABS situation and jump on the brakes.An ABS situation would be ice on the road, wet road, or a gravel road. I have not driven my S10 in any kind of ABS situation to test the ABS. .

When I replaced the brake lines, calipers, rear wheel cylinders and master cylinder, it took two people about 6 hours and a gallon of fluid to bleed the brakes and I still don't think the ABS modulator is fully bled and fully functional. I was told that it is difficult to bleed the ABS modulator without an obsolete GM Tech 1 (e-bay $400 used) scan tool that will cycle the modulator before as you bleed it and before you bleed the rest of the system.

 

[alwayscode390]

Re: stupid abs!

Time for an ABS delete kit if you ask me ---

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

I should feel fortunate. My 1991 S10 Blazer 4x4 has no codes, I have good pedal and I don't think the ABS works at all. The only way you can tell if your ABS works is to get the vehicle into a ABS situation and jump on the brakes.An ABS situation would be ice on the road, wet road, or a gravel road. I have not driven my S10 in any kind of ABS situation to test the ABS. .

When I replaced the brake lines, calipers, rear wheel cylinders and master cylinder, it took two people about 6 hours and a gallon of fluid to bleed the brakes and I still don't think the ABS modulator is fully bled and fully functional. I was told that it is difficult to bleed the ABS modulator without an obsolete GM Tech 1 (e-bay $400 used) scan tool that will cycle the modulator before as you bleed it and before you bleed the rest of the system.

No... actually you can bleed it completely without the Tech1. There's a pretty solid proceedure to getting the air out. :tup:

1: Using a baster, remove all the old fluid from the brake reservoir. Refill to line.

2: On each side of the side of the ABS unit is a bypass bolt. Break it open 1/4-1/2 turn.

3: Place 3 ABS drepressor clips (Kent-Moore No. J39177 or Wilmar W82010) over the rear of the combination valve,and 2 holding open the high-pressure accumulator bleed valves.

4: Holding the brake pedal down, open the top bleed screw on the right side first.

5: Close bleed screw, release pedal.

6: Wait 15 seconds (MUST!), check fluid level.

7: Repeat 4-6 until clean fluid and no air bubbles are seen.

8: When the right side is done on the module, repeat 4-7 with left side.

9: Close bypass bolts on each side.

10: Bleed remainder of system at wheel cylinders in this order: RR, LR, RF, LF. Remember to wait 15 seconds after you release the pedal before you reapply brakes during bleeding. This allows the system to recover fluid.

11: (Optional) Repeat entire process 1 more time.

There you go!

-P

(Thanks to DaveP and some Kelsey-Hayes 4WAL articles I found online!)

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

FWIW: I have a good, known working unit I pulled off my truck I can sell ya... I needed the space on the fender for my alky kit.

-P

 

[Static]

Re: stupid abs!

Theres some wires underneath the battery tray that run right near the headlight that go to the ABS. On my truck the connector was broken in that location.

 

[MoJo]

Re: stupid abs!

Thanks.! The next time I go into the brake syste to the point it needs bleeding again, I will use your procedure.

I bought three depressor tools and we did steps 1, 2, 3 and 10 . About two years ago I replaced the master cylinder, combination valve, front calipers, replaced both stock 3/4" rear wheel cylinders with 7/8" wheel cylinders and all three flex lines. We bled the brake system in the normal manner but tried to bleed the modulator afterwards and did steps 1, 2, 3 and 10. We eventually got good pedal by foot pumping the vehicle stops satisfactorily and the pedal does not sink to the floor if the brakes are applied in drive and don't have any OBD 1 codes, ABS or brake warning lights. . . I tried stopping on wet pavement once and I thought I heard the ABS kick in. I think the ABS probably l has air in the accumulators and probably doesn't work. .The wiring for the motor seems to work because I heard the motor running when we jumped the terminal to 12V with the hood open. I have only heard the ABS kick in and self test one time. The ABS is supposed to self test in the first 20 feet but I don't hear anything. .

That goes to prove my opinion that you don't need ABS for daily driving in dry weather if the main portion of the brake system is bled and working correctly. The ABS on my '95 Ford F150 has not worked in ten years. I tried my Ford truck's ABS on wet pavement about a week ago and the truck's rear brakes locked up and slid and the front brakes did all the stopping without any problem..

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

]...That goes to prove my opinion that you don't need ABS for daily driving in dry weather if the main portion of the brake system is bled and working correctly.[/U] The ABS on my '95 Ford F150 has not worked in ten years. I tried my Ford truck's ABS on wet pavement about a week ago and the truck's rear brakes locked up and slid and the front brakes did all the stopping without any problem..

From http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=31058

Just got through today installing the lines to delete my Abs today...WOW what a diffrence!!

Here is the background: Syclone Stock suspension, rear sway bar added,Stock Front Brakes, Hawk performance sport pads, Stock wheels with Goodyear eagle HP's Stock size, Manual S-10 cylinders in the rear drums, with 2 "long shoes" in each side. Full tank of gas and with a spare tire, no passenger. The only change was the tranny. From a 700r4 to a 4l80E. A gain of weight of 75 lbs est.

Both tests were done with a Tazzo performance meter. 60 mph - zero. At night on the same road with the temp in the mid to low 70's. 5 stops done back to back to back, etc.


With ABS was done in the spring. AVG 160.3 FT, Best 152.3 ft(3rd of 5), worst 169.8(last)
Feel from the Drivers Seat: The truck felt like it was hoping as the abs modulated with the back end kicking out to the left everytime. Did not give me a very confidant "feel". I don't know if this a result of the larger rear cylinders or not?

ABS Delete done sunday night. AVG 145.7, Best 142.8 ft (4th of 5) worst 149.0 (last)

Interesting... ain't it?

-P

 

[MoJo]

Re: stupid abs!

A S10 pick up will stop differently than a S10 Blazer.

On my 91 S10 Blazer, it stoped straight from several 60 to 0 tests on dry pavement and I did not notice any difference in stopping power or control between the 3/4" rear wheel cylinders and the 7/8" rear wheel cylinders. There is a change in brake bias with the slightly larger rear wheel cylinders but I did not notice any difference.. My ABS is not working at all or it did not kick in because the pavement was dry.

The motor relay in my ABS modulator is not serviceable and if the relay fails to operate the motor, the ABS modulator must be replaced or rebuilt by a qualified re builder. . Cardone told me they would rebuild my ABS modulator for $800.

There are no rebuilt ABS modulators available at parts stores because the rebulders have no cores to rebuild. I suppose when the ABS modulator fail, the car owner throws the modulator away and does without ABS brakes. .

 

[atkonkler]

Re: stupid abs!

Well no more abs light but pedal is still soft?hmmm no leaks? Abs delete kit going to be ordered! good thing itll make room for the alky injection cause of the rpm cold air in the other side! I guess it was meant to be! I guess im tired of taking my own life in my hands when i brake! No abs here i come and wont look back!:÷)

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Well no more abs light but pedal is still soft?hmmm no leaks? Abs delete kit going to be ordered! good thing itll make room for the alky injection cause of the rpm cold air in the other side! I guess it was meant to be! I guess im tired of taking my own life in my hands when i brake! No abs here i come and wont look back!:÷)

Deleted mine for alky too... too much good space going to waste.

-P

 

[atkonkler]

Re: stupid abs!

Ordered abs delete kit from hood! Too much good space to go to wastr is right! I want to spend time with an engineer who came up with that design in gm trucks, in a dark room for one frantic minute! So happy to get rid of this poop! I guess itll turn into a every couple a days driver! Ive heard that once to do this youll never go back is this true? Bueller, bueller, anyone, anyone? So i guess the next ordeal is alky injection midsummer!

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Years ago people pulled out electronic ignition systems and put POINT BACK IN THEIR CARS ??????????

They also ordered cars with Generators. As they did not want that new MYSTERY ALTERNATOR OPTION????

Sorry, but this Kelsey-Hayes system has a long history of being "****ed".

Hi Guys,
Went out on a trip in the Typhoon in the last hour (me, wife and kids), All going well comming up to a roundabout junction on the dual carrageway (70mph speed limit ) and the brake peddel was just solid and no braking at all. I could not move the peddel no matter how hard I pushed, Luckly the E brake ) slowed us down from 70mph. The old drums were starting to fade , I pulled it back to first gear from Drive and that helped

Local shop has replaced my ABS box 2x now. Looks like it just failed again. Has anyone else had a similiar problem? I bought the truck with 45k miles. The original failed at about 90k. In 11k I've had 3 fail. They are Cardone rebuilds.

Mine almost got myself and my family in an accident. Snowy road. Lots of traffic. Going about 10 mph. Pushed on the brake pedal. Truck slows down almost stopped. Just before stopping(just rolling), ABS kicks in, pedal goes to the floor. Truck takes off. I had to run it into a curb to keep from hitting the cars in front of me. The sy, ty, and sonoma GT WAS in the recall for malfunctioning Kelsey Hayes ABS systems, then they were pulled from the recall, then the whole recall kinda disappeared. I remember it being on the news. Dont' see syclone or typhoon hardly in the news and it stood out. I've never had any weird incidents like that since disabling it. It was one of the first systems of it's kind (being 4 wheel abs) and it just didn't work right. I'm sure the systems are better now considering it's been 15 or 16 years.

I didn't think much about it, until one day I was pulling to a stop behind cars at a red light. Suddenly, the ABS light goes OUT, and the pedal starts pulsing (apparently, the computer was getting a signal of some sort from the damaged sensor, but it was interpreting that that sensor was not at the same speed as the other 3). I could only watch in horror as my previously-safe stopping distance was now obviously not going to be enough. Not by a wide margin. Fortunately, the ABS system must have lost the signal from the left rear, the ABS light came back ON, ABS quit, and I had barely enough distance to stop before hitting the car in front of me.

And on and on and on. It's not a generator.... it's a first gen, crap-ass system. It's sensitive to debris, it's prone to fail at inopportune times (more than one truck in the graveyard had their ABS go out). I got my truck with them not working (bad accumulator motor), new module fixed it. BUT.... BUT, for how long would the system work? How long before my trucks sensitive-ass ABS system decides to crap out?

Screw that. $20 in parts and I'm better off. If you're super good about following the bleeding proceedure (I worked with DaveP troublehsooting it), you might end up with a decent working system.

I'd rather spend the money on a F/Y-body big brake kit. Better stopping and no worries that it's going to go tits up.

Keep your system for originality, for sentimentality... whatever.... just don't keep it because it's safer.

-P

(SEE: https://www.google.com/#hl=en&outpu....,cf.osb&fp=21ba5269d78bca91&biw=1404&bih=827

 

[atkonkler]

Re: stupid abs!

Oh with the 20+ minutes of reading of close calls im getting it out even though its finicky like my girlfriend! Itll do what you want then it wont! Im not going to go have intercouse with myself and keep the abs in and meet another vehicle in the backside. Plus room for alky and i dont have to put it in my back behind me backseat! Wish me luck and the force be with me!

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Oh with the 20+ minutes of reading of close calls im getting it out even though its finicky like my girlfriend! Itll do what you want then it wont! Im not going to go have intercouse with myself and keep the abs in and meet another vehicle in the backside. Plus room for alky and i dont have to put it in my back behind me backseat! Wish me luck and the force be with me!

Oh Good Lord! It gets even better!

From http://www.faqs.org/car/chevrolet-blazer-1992/service-brakes/

200+ NHTSA complaints about the ABS brakes. :rotf:

3 NHTSA Investigations...

and 1 recall campaign: 99V193000

-P

 

[MoJo]

Re: stupid abs!

I may keep my ABS now that I was given the straight scoop on how to bleed the system. The next time I open the system up for a 10,000 mile fluid flush, I will try to bleed the ABS according to what I was given on this thread, but without a $300 GM Tech 1 scan tool. Apparently the scan tool is not needed.

Before my associate and I spent 6 hours bleeding my ECHU (ABS module), I was told by a couple of "professional" mechanics that you cannot bleed the ABS without a GM Tech 1 scan tool. Maybe those mechanics just did not want to spend five hours bleeding the ECHU and the rest of the system or maybe they did not have three OTC 7853 combination valve depressors that cost $30 each. I bought the three OTC 7853 depressors for $9 each. However, we did not bleed the EHCU correctly and I don't think the ABS system works. . .

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Maybe those mechanics just did not want to spend five hours bleeding the ECHU and the rest of the system or maybe they did not have three OTC 7853 combination valve depressors that cost $30 each.

This. It seems like (IMHO) that since these trucks are older and require tools most independent shops might not have, they're less likely to want to do it or, when done, do it improperly. They treat it like a regular part of the system or try and bleed it the old fashioned way.

FWIW: I purchased the Wilmar W82010 for $2.60ea from Amazon.

The worst part about bleeding them wasn't the 1 1/2 quarts of fluid I ran through the system, or the black(ish) fluid that I drained out... it was the sound of my oldest son saying "AGAIN?!?" when I asked him to push and hold as I bled the same wheel for the 20th time (to get all the air and old fluid out!). :rotf:

-P

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Oh yeah.... I asked my oldest son if he wanted to know what I wanted for the upcoming Fathers Day?

"Yeah sure... what?"

"a Mityvac brake bleeder for the Ty".

He laughed.

-P