4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

[Gatman]

I have been gently persuaded and strongly suggested that I swap out my freshly built 700R4 transmission BEFORE I grenade the tranny to a pile of useless parts. My build will be in the 500+hp range and from what everyone is telling me, the stock 700 and converter will never last with that kind of power let alone a few boosted launches. So... a 4L80 is the way to go right?? I'm honestly not so sure. Here is my problem(s)...

1. Buy and rebuild a 4L80
2. Buy and install a new cross member
3. Buy and install a longer/adjustable prop-shaft
4. Buy and install a FAST (or similar) computer to operate the tranny
5. Buy and install a stall converter
6. Shorten my driveshaft
7. Buy and replace the tail shaft
8. Buy and install the adaptor plate
9. Buy and install new shifter linkage and cables
10. Etc. etc.

In my search for a late model 4L80 I have come across several reputable tranny builders online that claim to be able to build a virtually indestructible 700R4 that can handle in excess of 1200hp!! Now these are expensive units as they are essentially all billet construction and use only the best of the best internals (pumps, servos, clutches, converter, etc.). I can get one of these built transmissions anywhere from $3800 to $5500. which obviously is a huge coin, but when you consider the price cost for the list above...

Does anyone have any experience with one of these bulletproof 700R4's? I would MUCH rather simply swap out my stocker with one of these bad boys than go through the hassle of making the conversion. Please share your thoughts. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

 

[T-Bone]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

RPM is very reputable and to my knowledge, no one has fragged one of their built 4L60E tranny's yet. The level VI build they did for me worked flawless.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

First of all, there is no such thing as a bulletproof 700R4.

Second, handling 1200HP is awesome, as them what they are in, Corvettes? Camaros? I guarantee NONE of them are in 4000 pound AWD trucks.

Third, its not the Horsepower that is the main killer of our transmission, its the Torque. As these builders how much Torque it can handle and what their warranty will be in a 4000 pound truck and watch them dodge the question or offer zero warranty at all.

 

[autoaddictions]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

I guess the big factor is do you intend to build a truck making 1200 hp. What's your goal. If it's over 700 hp than you be crazy not to make the move to the 4l80e. I have a 2000 trans am ws6 procharged. It runs 10 .0. Makes around 650 to the tire. I run drag radials no trans break. I'm using a RPM level 6 4l60. I've broke it 2 times in 20 passes. Both times I was driving on the street not even racing. That should tell you something.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

When I have emailed a couple shops that sells converter rated @ say 500-600 HP I tell them if they will handle the torque my Sy puts out.

They quickly tell me no, I would need a much better/beefier more expensive converter.

On the dyno my Sy produced 396 HP, & a max torque of 604 ft lbs & drops down to 550 ft lbs after the converter settles down the torque reading. Reducing the torque multiplications.

So far, my stock trans & converter are still in my Sy, but who knows for how long?

 

[JAY]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

I'm having a shop here build me a "bp" 700r4. I'll let you know my findings. The same setup is in my friend's 500 hp Camaro. He works at this shop and I'll have warranty.

 

[V8 Sonoma GT]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

80 can be done cheaper than $5k. may be close, depending your route, but you have options.

 

[Black Knight]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

I would not spend my money on anything other than an 80E. Yes it will be more hassle, but do it once and do it right. Yes, you can have a shop build a 700 or 60E, but the ratio of syty peeps who've broken those vs 80E speaks for itself.

Like Ron said depending on how much work you can do yourself and how much you spend on the initial build it can be done for less than $5k.

 

[bezerk]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

i would try a good 700r4 build by a spec. first.
4l80E aint cheap

 

[JSM]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

When you go through 3 700's, and the cost and hassles associated before you realize pushing a 700 that far is just asking a lot. Has it been done, probably, has it NOT been done and people had issue, hell yes a quick search here will show you that.

People have had issues on 80e's, but as of yet i don't think I have seen anyone break hard parts, just have issues with the rebuild done prior to installing into syty.

All depends what you pocket book allows and how many times your willing to test things and possibly have issues vs how much your willing to spend up front.

 

[Gatman]

RPM is very reputable and to my knowledge, no one has fragged one of their built 4L60E tranny's yet. The level VI build they did for me worked flawless.

Were there any major mods when doing the 4L60 swap? When it was all said and done, what did you have into your swap if you don't mind me asking. I just really want to make a smart choice as this is a lot of money and effort.

First of all, there is no such thing as a bulletproof 700R4.

Second, handling 1200HP is awesome, as them what they are in, Corvettes? Camaros? I guarantee NONE of them are in 4000 pound AWD trucks.

Third, its not the Horsepower that is the main killer of our transmission, its the Torque. As these builders how much Torque it can handle and what their warranty will be in a 4000 pound truck and watch them dodge the question or offer zero warranty at all.

Great point and suggestions!!

When I have emailed a couple shops that sells converter rated @ say 500-600 HP I tell them if they will handle the torque my Sy puts out.

They quickly tell me no, I would need a much better/beefier more expensive converter.

On the dyno my Sy produced 396 HP, & a max torque of 604 ft lbs & drops down to 550 ft lbs after the converter settles down the torque reading. Reducing the torque multiplications.

So far, my stock trans & converter are still in my Sy, but who knows for how long?

Holy crap! I can't believe your tranny is still alive!! I'm getting the feeling more and more like I need to pony up and do a 4L80 swap. My target HP is around the 500 mark and I really just want to do the tranny once.... I'm one of those guys that once it's in, I don't ever want to have to take it back out.

I'm having a shop here build me a "bp" 700r4. I'll let you know my findings. The same setup is in my friend's 500 hp Camaro. He works at this shop and I'll have warranty.

PLEASE keep me updated!! What stall converter will you be using?

When you go through 3 700's, and the cost and hassles associated before you realize pushing a 700 that far is just asking a lot. Has it been done, probably, has it NOT been done and people had issue, hell yes a quick search here will show you that.

People have had issues on 80e's, but as of yet i don't think I have seen anyone break hard parts, just have issues with the rebuild done prior to installing into syty.

All depends what you pocket book allows and how many times your willing to test things and possibly have issues vs how much your willing to spend up front.

Good advice. Thanks!

 

[QWERTYphoon]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

Keep in mind also that a 4l80e is heavier and has a slower first gear ratio and a lot more money. I have a rebuilt 700r4 that has lasted over 8 years with out issue. 3000k stall and built motor.

 

[GM TURBO]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

Keep in mind also that a 4l80e is heavier and has a slower first gear ratio and a lot more money. I have a rebuilt 700r4 that has lasted over 8 years with out issue. 3000k stall and built motor.

Everyone brings that up yet anyone who has switched to an 80 hasn't gone noticeably slower. I know Jeremy D has gone faster.

 

[JSM]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

1st gear is higher ratio, so it stays in 1st longer actually which from my experience is a benefit. Pay attention to how quickly a 700 shifts out of 1st, its almost instantly then bogs a bit.

 

[It's just a six]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

The 700R4 does have a bad drop once it goes into 2nd gear, not so bad w/us having a lot of torque to push it through.
Jeremy's Sy did not slow down from the extra weight & taller first gear when he switched to the 4L80E.

Just think about what transmissions were put behind BBC's (Big Block Chevys) from the factory, TH400.
Reason being is that BBC put out a lot of torque.

If you are going to make 500 HP, that is fine, just think about how much torque your engine is going to put out..

I would say you will be making 450-600+ ft lbs depending on how much boost you plan on running.

Just ask some transmission shops,, tell them how much torque you are going to make, it's AWD & the weight of vehicle.
Ask them what OD trans they would use. 700R4, 4L60E, 4l65E, 4L80E, 4L85E

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

First off, here's a link to get you started:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/1306_performance_guide_to_the_gm_4l80e_transmission/

Second, determine your goals:
-originality/restoration
-street (cruising, vacations, car shows, daily driver)
-street/strip (bracket racing, casual heads up, 3-4 times/per yr or more)
-performance oriented (autocrossing, drag racing, grudge racing, street racing on weekends)

Third, know your vehicle:
-Weight, Hp, Torque, RPM range, Gear Ratios,
-Cooling needs (separate cooler/fans vs radiator, vs deep pan)
-Ideal stall, (which is influenced by the type of oil used -loose or tight and specs)
-Wheel/Tire specs (traction component - slicks, dragradials, street, bias vs radials)
-Supporting Parts (Driveline - propshaft, driveshaft, ujoints, pinion angle)
-Options (Electronic controllers, overdrive, racing components, shifter/cable) and expectations (mpg, 60 ft times, towing needs, heat soaking)

Fourth, and Last:
-Budget
-Acceptable Downtime
-Warrantee/Maintenance
-Reputation from vendor/supplier
-and cost/year of vehicle ownership if you decide to sell, trade, or move on.

As much as the members on this board want to help, every truck
is a different (and so to their owners they can/do justify their selection
of converter/transmission). Some want performance, some reliability,
some plan for future updates/mods, and some just plain get it wrong (more than you think).
Ultimately realize heat, torque, and driveline shock kill awd and 2wd transmissions.
Some jumped on the Blake bandwagon earlier on and never looked back after the conversion. Doesnt matter if your breaking
other stuff however, (i.e. your still destined for jack stand storage and non-enjoyment if engine, diffs, ecm/electronics, or emissions/licensing fails)
and broke financially. It also doesnt sound like your extremely patient, or a trial-n-error kinda person which makes modding one of these vehicles frustrating. So good luck :tup:

-Larry

 

[Gatman]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

Well crap... 4L80 it is...

 

[randy merritt]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

Just my thoughts, not my advice, but I used this rebuild kit on my last rebuild.

https://www.700r4l60e.com/store/product.php?productid=292&cat=19&page=1

Using a 30% drive train loss conversion from my AWD chassis dyno pull, I am producing about 600 crank HP and about 700 crank TQ. I did add a couple of extra things, like cryo treating the output shaft and input drum, but I thought I would give this a try before I dumped the 4-6K (price numbers have been discussed/argued over many times) into a 4l80e swap. So far so good, but it has only been a few months and I don't drive the truck very much. There are 4l60's that have survived high HP and TQ, but there are not many. My trans guy swore this build should survive the power I am throwing at it (even with AWD).

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

I think its possible to have a properly built 4L60 hold 500 crank hp (about 400whp and 550-600ft-lbs of torque. I plan on turning up the boost on my truck with a 4L60 to make ~450-475hp. (Or what ever it take to runs11.5's.). If you already have the transmission it might be worth while to try it out and if you worried maybe turn down the boosts a couple psi. You can atleast enjoy it now.

If you were aiming for mid 10's with 700hp I would say your wasting your time with a 4L60.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4L80 swap VS. Bulletproof 700R4 HELP!?!

Run a stock 4l80e and try to blow it up. Then if you do, drop in a built one. You will already have the adapter and shaft for the built one, if you need it.