4l80e question

[Norm]

I can pick up a 4l80-e tranny from a 2 wheel drive chev (2006) 3500 express van. Will this work for a tranny swap with the purchase of the adapter? If not why or ..maybe if I bought ?? what else?? I also have a chance to get a lq4 6.0 engine. I think they are rated for 320 hp or so. Any imput would be appreciated.

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: 4l80e question

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=53586&highlight=2wd+4l80e

HTH's

 

[Norm]

Re: 4l80e question

I thought I saw this posted somewhere before. Just couldn't ( too lazy) to look for it. Thanks.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: 4l80e question

I thought I saw this posted somewhere before. Just couldn't ( too lazy) to look for it. Thanks.

Keep in mind that what was stated in that post isn't entirely correct. The portion about the reluctor ring needed is not true. According to GB, you can use the rear speed sensor off the SyTy transfer case as the TOSS sensor on the 4L80E, but you have to splice the sensor into your harness to do so. But if it's a 2WD tranny, you'll have that TOSS sensor (most likely), so the biggest issue is the output shaft.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4l80e question

Why is everybody so in love with the 4l80e? I know they are bigger and more heavy duty then the 4l60-e, but they don't fit all that great. On the ls1 forumn there are guys running in the low 10's, high 9's with a 4l60e. Sems like a more logical choice to go 4l60e. It would fit better, more of them arounf then the 80e's. Just another question I had.

 

[hrodgmc]

Re: 4l80e question

I think it's because the 60's were being ripped apart 15 years ago and Hartman built 700's for 5-6k and it was still an issue of reliability.

Making one last in a vette is fairly easy, making one hold up to awd abuse and ton's of torque in a heavier vehicle, is a little more difficult.

 

[sparkwire]

Re: 4l80e question

Keep in mind that what was stated in that post isn't entirely correct. The portion about the reluctor ring needed is not true. According to GB, you can use the rear speed sensor off the SyTy transfer case as the TOSS sensor on the 4L80E, but you have to splice the sensor into your harness to do so. But if it's a 2WD tranny, you'll have that TOSS sensor (most likely), so the biggest issue is the output shaft.

You mean I really didn't need the jumper to the vss on the TC cause i have both sensors in the trans? I also have a 06 trans , 6 miles on it, out of express van, 2wd converted to 4wd with shift kit.
Norm, there's a 4x4 shaft listed on ebay!http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Part...arms=39:1|65:3|240:1318&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245

 

[George Blake]

Re: 4l80e question

I'll help here and then I'm out.
There is a reluctor ring on the planetary in the back of the 80e that is used for the TOSS.
Transmission Output Shaft Speed sensor. This is in 2wd units and some 4WD units. If it is a 4wd unit, pull out the rear TOSS sensor and look in there. If there is a reluctor ring with teeth on it, you can plug into that and get your signal. That ring has 40 teeth on it. In your syclone typhoon transfer case, there is a reluctor ring in it on the output shaft. It has 40 teeth on it. What a coincidence. So you CAN tap into the wires that go to your VSS on your transfer case to get the signal.
There are many guys that don't want to do the wire tapping and that's understood. Sonnax makes a reluctor ring that presses onto the planetary of the 80e and your done. But the trans has to be torn down to do it.
Your best bet, in my opinion, is to find a LONG spline 2WD transmission, trim it down and your done. A 2wd trans will have the reluctor ring and the long spline can be cut to whatever needs of the adaptor you are using.
I'm not gonna argue why people want them. I'm just helping on the TOSS issue. The statement I told PPI was true. It's just that there are other ways to skin a cat and I don't think it was fair to say what I said wasn't true. I've already been accused of hoarding information. It makes it sound like I mislead someone. That way in that other post is just the most common way to handle it. I know PPI didn't mean anything by it, but there are those just salivating to make me look like I've done you guys wrong. That's all. You guys hash the other stuff out. Later.........

Keep in mind that what was stated in that post isn't entirely correct. The portion about the reluctor ring needed is not true. According to GB, you can use the rear speed sensor off the SyTy transfer case as the TOSS sensor on the 4L80E, but you have to splice the sensor into your harness to do so. But if it's a 2WD tranny, you'll have that TOSS sensor (most likely), so the biggest issue is the output shaft.

 

[George Blake]

Re: 4l80e question

You mean I really didn't need the jumper to the vss on the TC cause i have both sensors in the trans? I also have a 06 trans , 6 miles on it, out of express van, 2wd converted to 4wd with shift kit.

Right. Your trans has a rear reluctor wheel on it. So your TOSS was completely functional. Now before anyone accuses me of anything else, I never told Rodger how to hook his up. I just built his trans for him. I know Rodger isn't accusing me of anything but there are plenty of people on here that don't like me for whatever reason despite all I've done for this place and I just don't need the bashing for something I did not do. I answered this because I built Rodger's trans and I KNOW what was in it. That is all. Carry on.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4l80e question

Geez, I didn't want to start a war. I just wanted to now if I should get that 2 wheel drive 80e tranny. I got more info from the link above that I was too lazy to search for. But thanks to all who replied. By the sounds of it, I don't need the 4x4 output shaft then.

 

[George Blake]

Re: 4l80e question

Geez, I didn't want to start a war. I just wanted to now if I should get that 2 wheel drive 80e tranny. I got more info from the link above that I was too lazy to search for. But thanks to all who replied. By the sounds of it, I don't need the 4x4 output shaft then.

No no no. You didn't do anything wrong. Every time I try to help I get slammed for some reason. I now have to defend myself every time I answer something to help a guy out. I'll let you guys be.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4l80e question

There's nothing worng in helping George. I was asking a question. Now I know from experience if you ask 10 people a question, your going to get at least 6 different answers. I basically wanted to know if the tranny would be the better of a choice than a 4x4 one, it kinda sounds like yes, it'l work. Now if I need to buy other things to make it work , I have no problem with that. Everybody trys to keep costs down no matter if it is building a house or modifying a ty.

 

[George Blake]

Re: 4l80e question

There's nothing worng in helping George. I was asking a question. Now I know from experience if you ask 10 people a question, your going to get at least 6 different answers. I basically wanted to know if the tranny would be the better of a choice than a 4x4 one, it kinda sounds like yes, it'l work. Now if I need to buy other things to make it work , I have no problem with that. Everybody trys to keep costs down no matter if it is building a house or modifying a ty.

Norm, the output shaft that can be used in a 4L80e with Mike Lee's adaptor or my adaptor setup is this one:

It'll have a small oil deflector can pressed onto it that will pop right off.
If you look at the tail of the trans and it looks like the above pic, your set.
If you look at the trans and you see this:

Then it won't work with the syty BW4472 adaptors available from me or Mike Lee.
By the time you cut the O-ring shaft to length, there would be no spline left.
But if the price is low enough, it might be worth it to get a 4x4 output shaft and put in it.
To get this to work with the 4472 though, you have to use the input shafts that I had made. They have the 32 spline input setup. Here's how it looks looking down into it.
Top is the big 32 spline arrangement.

Sorry, I just didn't want to "half way" answer your question.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4l80e question

Thanks George. Any info to help me understand what direction I want to go is helpful.

 

[PPI Typhoon]

Re: 4l80e question

I'll help here and then I'm out.
There is a reluctor ring on the planetary in the back of the 80e that is used for the TOSS.
Transmission Output Shaft Speed sensor. This is in 2wd units and some 4WD units. If it is a 4wd unit, pull out the rear TOSS sensor and look in there. If there is a reluctor ring with teeth on it, you can plug into that and get your signal. That ring has 40 teeth on it. In your syclone typhoon transfer case, there is a reluctor ring in it on the output shaft. It has 40 teeth on it. What a coincidence. So you CAN tap into the wires that go to your VSS on your transfer case to get the signal.
There are many guys that don't want to do the wire tapping and that's understood. Sonnax makes a reluctor ring that presses onto the planetary of the 80e and your done. But the trans has to be torn down to do it.
Your best bet, in my opinion, is to find a LONG spline 2WD transmission, trim it down and your done. A 2wd trans will have the reluctor ring and the long spline can be cut to whatever needs of the adaptor you are using.
I'm not gonna argue why people want them. I'm just helping on the TOSS issue. The statement I told PPI was true. It's just that there are other ways to skin a cat and I don't think it was fair to say what I said wasn't true. I've already been accused of hoarding information. It makes it sound like I mislead someone. That way in that other post is just the most common way to handle it. I know PPI didn't mean anything by it, but there are those just salivating to make me look like I've done you guys wrong. That's all. You guys hash the other stuff out. Later.........

George, I didn't say what you said was wrong, I said it's not entirely correct. AND I then followed that by YOU telling me another way to do it.

Perhaps you're just on the defensive, but I am not trying to make you look like you're doing anyone wrong.

Honestly, you point people to your forum, and that "Ask your questions here" is long and full of information about Powerglides, TH400's, etc. That post is very hard to sit down and read in one sitting. Trust me, I've done in more than once......many times actually. Since you are the main source of 4L80E info, that's really the only source of info and if you happen to skip even one page, you can miss a lot of info.

Maybe if you make a 4L80E FAQ, it will help clear these things up?

But let me state again, I am NOT saying you're doing anyone wrong. I just simply was stating that YOU informed me of a different way. I would MUCH rather splice a wire than tear down a transmission. I'm sure there are others that are the same way.

I like you GB......I can appreciate your "pioneering" way of thinking. I just think you're getting defensive, partially rightfully so, but you're saying I did something that I did not.

I don't slam people for sharing information.

 

[fivetodrive]

Re: 4l80e question

Here are pictures of the 4L80e mentioned above. I pulled the tail housing off before deciding if I should buy it. Here is the way to figure out if it is a 4l80 with the long splined shaft. This is a 1996 4l80..

Removing tailshaft housing

removing the oil deflector

Sliding it off

The full shaft

So this is the shaft that can be cut to fit if you use the 32 spline imput shaft that George pioneered!!!

Also this is what the inside of the tranny looked like. It had 132,000 miles

And the pan

THANKS GEORGE for making this possible for us!

 

[George Blake]

Re: 4l80e question

It's not you bro.
There are those that WILL quote your line later and say "George is a dumbass, look what he said to so and so." Basically take what you say out of context and try to use it to prove a negative point about me later. It's getting to the point where I can't say much on here anymore and wouldn't be responding here now except to say, I know you didn't mean anything by it, like I said above. I hate the internet sometimes. It's sad that as much as I've done here and given away, there are still those that say I'm hording info and go out of their way to say I'm spreading incorrect info when I do say something. It's obvious when they do it. Just torques me.
I know what your saying about the "ask your questions here." I should update it when I have time and lay out 80e specific stuff and lock it so it can't get muddled up.

HOLY CRAP! Nice pics!!! That is exactly the setup I'm talking about.

George, I didn't say what you said was wrong, I said it's not entirely correct. AND I then followed that by YOU telling me another way to do it.

Perhaps you're just on the defensive, but I am not trying to make you look like you're doing anyone wrong.

Honestly, you point people to your forum, and that "Ask your questions here" is long and full of information about Powerglides, TH400's, etc. That post is very hard to sit down and read in one sitting. Trust me, I've done in more than once......many times actually. Since you are the main source of 4L80E info, that's really the only source of info and if you happen to skip even one page, you can miss a lot of info.

Maybe if you make a 4L80E FAQ, it will help clear these things up?

But let me state again, I am NOT saying you're doing anyone wrong. I just simply was stating that YOU informed me of a different way. I would MUCH rather splice a wire than tear down a transmission. I'm sure there are others that are the same way.

I like you GB......I can appreciate your "pioneering" way of thinking. I just think you're getting defensive, partially rightfully so, but you're saying I did something that I did not.

I don't slam people for sharing information.

 

[Norm]

Re: 4l80e question

Other than the obvious answer, what's the difference between the 4l60-e and the 4l80-e. I already know the 80e is the big daddy of gm tranny's, but it doesn't really fit the tight spaces of a ty/sy. Is it possible to run a 4l60-e behind a ty/sy or, what I am thinking, run the 4l60-e behind a ls-1 swap.

 

[fivetodrive]

Re: 4l80e question

Glad you liked the pics! This 4l80 looked great. It was just like you told me when I was in Ohio and met you... these transmissions are amazing... there was less "hair" on the magnet than my 700r4 at 30k than this one at 130k... I am so glad I bought the imput shaft for the bw4472 transfer case!

 

[George Blake]

Re: 4l80e question

Other than the obvious answer, what's the difference between the 4l60-e and the 4l80-e. I already know the 80e is the big daddy of gm tranny's, but it doesn't really fit the tight spaces of a ty/sy. Is it possible to run a 4l60-e behind a ty/sy or, what I am thinking, run the 4l60-e behind a ls-1 swap.

Who told you that? The only thing you do to the truck is either notch the rear crossmember or make it removable and bolt back in like Frank from Autoaddictions did. MANY of us have them in our trucks now. Syclone and Typhoon.
In a nutshell, 60 series was meant to be a lightweight, smog friendly trans. Aluminum and stamped steel load baring parts with an output shaft drilled full of holes to allow lube of the geartrain. 80 series has all steel and cast iron load baring parts. The overrun clutch of the 80e is as big as the 3-4 clutches of the 60e. Weight was not an issue. 80e took a Sy with no other mods .2 faster in the quarter. We were told we were lying because that "just couldn't happen." BS. It happened. No bands apply in the 80e under normal circumstances. You get a band for manual braking when you pull the lever back and the reverse band for, well, reverse. So no bands to scorch or break. 60e has a band that must apply for 2nd and must apply for 4th.
Do some searching on here. The evidence is everwhere that it fits fine and it works.
The ONLY gripe I've had guys go on about is that rear crossmember. Of course, removing the rear crossmember is no big deal for some guys, a really big deal for others. Depends on your ability.
Mike Lee is working on a nice replacement for the rear crossmember since the coil over guys don't need it anymore but guys still want the rigidity of the frame.
There is a LOT of bunk on the internet about the "weight" issue. Many of us here have found it is just NOT true.
Gearing is completely different on the 80e. Turbos love load. I think a lot of the time issue was from the 80e having a longer 1st gear. So the truck is now taking off AND using first rather than just get out of the hole then immediately shift. When I worked with Tasos Alexiou a few years ago, we had his Sy set up with a 700 that did 8.90's. Cost over $6.5K for JUST parts for the trans. No converter. Tasos found that 1st gear becomes useless at that level in a 700. Nothing but wheel spin, the 1-2 shift because the gear ratio is spread out so far scared the hell out of him. That's a LARGE reason for the nasty 1-2 bang shift. Rather than fight with the 80e/TH400, better to just embrace it and use it if you are gonna play a lot. LSX conversion are using it as well. Fits with the right pan and engine mounts.
Cruising vehicle, no. Don't need it. Like your project. If it's just a nice little cruiser. You don't need an 80e. For guys boost launching every stoplight, 700/60series just isn't gonna cut it. For example. If a guy has broken 5 or 6 700r4s, you think he really wants another? Then you get the guy on the other hand that has never broken one. He doesn't need it because how he uses his vehicle doesn't warrant it.