9/11 converter

spooldup

Super Member
Hi. The post below this one has to do with my tranny. While the tranny is being built i figured i might as well do the converter. Well i told the shop to do a 9/11 2800 stall. First off they don't know what a 9/11 is. I don't either. They also said that if you are referring to a 9" converter they will build it but not warranty it even if i do have a tranny cooloer. They said it's too hot. So they are building me a 10 1/2" Is this good? Whats the difference in size mean? How about the effect of HP and drivabiliy?
 

jwaller

Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
they dont know of a 9/11 because it is a converter that brian hartman designed just for syty's...and nobody with a cooler has a problem with them overheating....make sure if they are putting any converter in your truck that they modify the PR valve,.....and if they dont know what you are talking about when you ask them to modify the PR valve then you better take your truck and run....
 

kbbeckius

New member
You know, Hartman isn't the only one making high stall lockups. Hughes performance http://www.hughesperformance.com makes a 10"/12" hybrid. The primary reason this is done is so a larger clutch can be used for lockup, the smaller clutch that would have to be used in a 9"-10" convertor won't hold up to the torque stress. Other maunfacturers use a multi-disk clutch pack in the torque convertor, and still others just use a smaller clutch (Although longevity is sacrificed).

Thx Brad
 

Brian Hartman

New member
What? I'm not the only one with the lockup TC's? Man, and to think the market was cornered.

If you want the best TC for our trucks, get the 9/11 PERIOD. 10 1/2"? Why? Why not go with a more efficient setup? Lighter TC with less rotating mass? Why not go with a TC specialy designed for our truck instead of a mass produced TC? Why not have them custom made to order? Why not get it from the manufactor that builds the TCs for all the "best" companies out there that many of you assume make their own TC's. I give you a hint...pink....red...convertors. Why not buy it at cost instead of paying full blast?

Instead of trying to reinvent the wheel, it is a lot smarter to go with proven products, especially with our trucks.

Are you drinking Commerce City water? :smile:
 

10secTy

Sy-Ty builder and Tuner
Brian, I need to have the stall on my converter adjusted. Should I send it to you or should I send it to TCS?

Thanks

Nolan
 

Brian Hartman

New member
Just send the TC to TCS and the instructions of what your build is and what stall you are thinking about so we can figure out what will be best. What Cam do you have?
 

10secTy

Sy-Ty builder and Tuner
Hey dude. The Cam is a 222/230 with 112 lobe seperation. Heads are Bowtie raised runner heads that flow 275 at .500. This will be in a Typhoon so I was thinking around 3800-4000 stall.

Thanks

Nolan
 

kbbeckius

New member
Mr Hartman,

I am sorry if I offeneded you, I was simply explaining the fact that others make (or at least sell) hybrid, and high performance lockup convertors. I was also attempting to explain the different types of performance lockup convertors, and why I feel the hybrid types using larger clutches would provide the best choice of performance and reliability. I was not trying to disrespect or discredit you. The SY/TY community on this message board seems to have the highest respect for your work and products, and when I upgrade the convertor/transmission of my Typhoon, I plan on using your products. I am also trying to organize a sy/ty club here in the local Denver area, and am hoping we can meet someday.

Thanks,
Brad

PS: I drink bottled water :grin:
 

RAACCR

Member
Hey Nolan,

I guess with an itty-bitty cam & low flowing heads like yours, 4000 stall might be okay.
:wink:

Sounds like you've built a bad boy up there in the great white north.
 

10secTy

Sy-Ty builder and Tuner
Hey Rob

Ya trying to but these things take time. Only thing left is the turbo. I have the intercooler. Motor is assembled but it is coming apart again to do some more Cryoing and block fill.

How is your truck coming along Rob?

Nolan


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Canadian SY/TY on 2002-02-10 13:35 ]</font>
 

TurboTony

Active member
Hey Brian, I'm still looking for that tv boost valve that I e-mailed you about a few weeks ago.

How much for a .577 valve and do you have any in stock?


Sorry for the off topic post folks

TurboTony
 

RAACCR

Member
Nolan,
I was down at my warehouse today...fired up my truck for the first time in months. I've mostly been playing around with another Sy I bought last year...it just has some simple bolt-on parts, but its a lot of fun.
 

10secTy

Sy-Ty builder and Tuner
Hey Brian

Could you post TCS's addess? So I can send the converter.
Should I call first and talk to someone there as well as send a letter with the converter?
Also do you know how much they charge for adjusting the 9/11?

Thanks

Nolan
 

kwick6

Donating Member
On 2002-02-12 20:07, Canadian SY/TY wrote:
Hey Brian

Could you post TCS's addess? So I can send the converter.
Should I call first and talk to someone there as well as send a letter with the converter?
Also do you know how much they charge for adjusting the 9/11?

Thanks

Nolan

Hey Nolan,

Just happened to have my 9/11 sitting right here in the box, address is...

TCS Performance
2180 College Dr.
Lake Havasu AZ 86403

Scott
 

Brian Hartman

New member
Hey, just running through the old stuff to see if everything was correct. I sometimes am absent from here quite a bit so I missed some of the follow ups.

The address was given so the next question was for how much. ~$100 for a rebuilt and adjustment to a new stall.

Second. Precision Industries.....Well if you are fond of them, you'll love the 9/11. The same components or better are in the 9/11. Guess why? I gave you a hint in my earlier message....pink...red.... Guess who really make the PI's? I'll give you another hint...It's not PI :smile: The Multidisk thing is now as good of an idea as it looks. The multiple clutches all give a little and the TCC isn't as positive. Each of them slipping a little divids the heat between the surfaces, which is good but if they applied and the energy wasn't lost in heat but got transmitted into energy, your truck will lunge. If you didn't have enough apply surface to make one clutch apply and hold, the multi disk thing is the only real fix unless you made it into a hybrid like putting a 12" converter's apply plate in which measure out to the 11" in the 9/11" setup. Putting multiple disks into a hybrid is retarded because the big clutch will hold if you have a big clutch surface. Plus when the multi's give a little on the lock up, they start to degrade and carmelize or glaze. It's kinda like if you took a deck of cards and put them on the table, you take one card out and placed it on the table. You take your hand and with your hole palm you turn the card. OK, now do it with 3 or 5 ,6 cards and see the they fan out spinning together. It has a lot more spin to it but the heat will be divided amounst themselves unless one gives, then it's a Domino effect. IF you apply it hard the one clutch will win, if your stuff can't hold up to a hard shot, then the multidisk will help divid the punishment of a softer apply. Which if you have a crappy drivetrain, you might have a little bandaid here for yourself. So you can see that the multi clutches can serve a purpose as well, though not as extreme as one huge apply surface taking more apply pressure. Putting more clutches in a tranny is an option that works because you are restricted in the amount of surface area you can have and the heat can be dumped to more steels but they don't suffer what a multi TC does. Those multi plates clatter around like broken dinner plates when they aren't applied, clanging and chattering together. Can't say that is too good for them. Those clutches are a lot bigger than a little apply clutch in the tranny and the clutch material is a lot more brittle in the TC. When a TC clutch breaks, it will breaking into a bunch of little orange flakes or platelets. So if you couldn't design a TC strong enough or apply hard enough, going to a multiplate is an easy alternative though your performance will suffer a little. Plus the cost of a multi is a bit retarded. There's just too much to that can go wrong. KISS <Keep It Simple Stupid> is the winner when designing a TC in most cases.

Third 3500-3800 sounds ok for a stall, but I would err to the tighter side because as you up your power, your stall will go up as well and if you start stalling too high, you'll lose the exact thing you are trying to gain.

4th I have the .577 boost valves and .400 reverse boost valves but I'm only putting them in my upper staged kits when built up to handle the transbrake. You can't just drop them into anything. I would suggest the .525 boost valves. I never heard back from you after I responded so if you are still interested, give me a shout.

Brad. That's cool, Sometimes my words seem a little more edgy than they are intended to be. Hughes TCs are nice, guess who makes them....red....same hint, it isn't Hughes :smile: Not good for our application though and cost a lot more because they are marked up unlike the 9/11's. I'm glad to see I have your support. We can talk trannies at the get together. I'm going to try and make it myself. Not into video games too much but I not above making fun of someone sucking at whatever they are playing :smile:

Oh yeah, it's good to hear you are drinking bottled water. :smile: I was just kidding bro...I'm sure it don't taste as bad as it glows... :smile: Not like Denver water taste good anywhere plus the sand makes it more interesting.

Sorry I missed the response requests. If you don't hear something from me, try cross posting to the list and send it to my person address. I can at least see it staring at me as I try not to desperatly try to reach it as the e-mails come in faster than I can answer it. I think I have about 80 messages stacked up waiting and it grows everyday. Get 20 answer 18, slowly getting 80 people ticked off at me :smile: Don't be afraid to send me another one. Sometimes swap to the squeeky wheel technique for choosing which e-mail to answer next.

Take care,
 

turboj91

New member
Hey 92 Black Typhoon, with no disrespect (to anyone), if my memory serves me correctly, this is not the first time you have had trans. problems. My suggestion is to pull the job from where it's at and have Brian Hartman do it. I'm not employed by him, nor have I done business with him (knock on wood) but I have spoken with some people who have his product. They swear by them. There is also a post from a short time ago where some guys were at Moroso Dragway in the 10's and Rob (RAACR) drove someone else's truck which had Brian's trans. in it. He was so impressed by the trans. that he was going to call Brian the next morning to order one (he would have called that night upon his return from the track but it was almost midnight) even though he did not have any trans. problems at the time. Sounds like, you would sleep better at night if you had him do it. Like I said, I don't work for him and I cannot guarantee his work, but from what I have heard (from live conversation) and from what I have read in this BB, I would not hesitate to do business with him for my truck.
 

Brian Hartman

New member
I appreciate your support buddy. I work really hard to supply the best of everything for customer satisfaction. I'm also in development of A LOT of new stuff that is really cool and will make any performance shop head spin. Don't hesitate to give me a shout when you start getting the itch.


And Brad, I was thinking I could get a couple of door prizes to you for the Colorado get together, though I have to warn you. Really cool tranny HiPo upgrades are only exciting when you are actually going to build your tranny. If someone get's one and they are oblivious to the fact they are sitting on a ticking timebomb of a transmission, the appreciation factor for winning the prized will be a bit delayed but they'll be glad that have it then. So hopefully I am not giving away Omens or Curses to our MileHiSyTy crew :smile:
 
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