SBC conversion

[Sy#26]

Thanks much for all the advice & info, guys. Checked everywhere locally for a core - no deal. Found a place 3hrs away that has the right motor, number-wise. Heading out there Thursday to pick it up - 50k miles, $800. Brian G suggested LS1 - man, I'd *love* that, but haven't got the $$$ up front for that.

Buncha things enter into this decision; cash flow and timeline for getting it running again. Unfortunately, this is gonna be my last SyTy project - this thing has got to become a 'runner', not just a 'roller' in the next six to nine months. I was recently diagnosed w/ a nasty-ass disease that's probably gonna prevent me doing anything further in the hot-rod building business. All the good usable stuff will go on eBay for some of the $$$ needed for this - turbo, wheels, heads (ported Vortecs), U/L intake, etc - all the SyTy specific stuff.

Anyhow, plan is a *good* 383 rotating ass'y, that should be a done deal in the next couple of months. Then all the special swap stuff, like mounts, oil pan & pickup, decent dist, etc. A/C is already removed - jeez, there IS a good deal of room in there, after all.... Going to an external oil & trans cooler, prolly under the bed, to give the rad some extra cooling capacity. Never too hot here in MI, so should work. Gonna get it running N/A, then a Whipple 'charger - just saw one on eBay for $900 - max of 12psi shouldn't trash anything. I'll do pix as I go, but already, looks like driver's side exhaust is gonna be a bitch. Prolly just one bitch of many.....

There is a substitute for psi - its measured in cu/in²......

 

[Sy#26]

Link to pix comes up as 404 - try this:

http://huryde.station180.com/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=barry&page=2

 

[bezerk]

you have anny ID how your engine ended up that way?

About the V8 conversion, i know a guy who did the twinturbo in a Syclone with a v8 engine.
he wasn''t satishfied with the results, building a C5 corvette engine twin turbo at the moment

Good luck!

 

[myclone]

Any solid proof what caused all the carnage to begin with? Im guessing the plug wire arcing and misfire lifted the head, hydraulic'd that cyl which broke the rod. Just a guess though :-? .

 

[TYPHOOL7]

2 things:
1st that was the worst i have ever seen a "blown" motor..
2nd, whos trucks are those twins? DAYAMN

 

[mattw]

Hey Brian, why do you recommend a single plane carb manifold converted to EFI over a RamJet? I would imagine that you would have just as much into the carb intake after converting it as you would if you were to just buy a ramjet...???

I've been thinking on fabbing up a TT setup for my Blazer... Using two old stock Sy/Ty turbos, sy/ty ecm, possibly ramjet intake with vortec heads.... Then after I get it to work I could yank the motor and properly build up the bottom end....


Thanks,
-Matt

 

[imported_ty1724]

what rods were in that thing

 

[Tydriver]

Brian talked about ignition issues. If someone goes this way with a SBC, wouldn't he experience the same ignition issues down the road with a turbo setup? Otherwise if you go LS1, what would you use for engine management?

I will let ya know in a couple of months. I just got home from the road trip from hell yesterday (thanks Mike Dobrick for the ridealong).

I purchased an LS1 out of a '00 Camaro SS, complete with PCM and harness and only had 36,000 miles. My plans at this time are quite simple.

I am going to verify it will fit, the LS1 is completely different than any SBC ever built, not only by its casting materials but by its overall size. To put it plainly, its Effing HUGE on the bottom end. The block is completely different in shape size and composition. Its NOT as simple of a swap as a person would think in an AWD or 4x4 application. Heck its even a PITA in 2wd S-10s.

Upon the verification that it will indeed fit (I am confident I can make it). I am going to tear down the motor and put in:

Forged Rods and Pistons (must be the sytyer in me cant trust stock stuff).
TURBO Camshaft
high tech head gaskets.
New bearings and the seals needed and re-assemble it.
and a pair of Garrett GT32 or GT35 Turbos :wink:

My hope is, with only 36,000 miles on it, the internals will be in good enough shape to NOT REQUIRE machining.

As far as engine management is concerned, I expect to use the STOCK SYTY computer on it running Speed Density. I am thoroughly convinced that the SyTy computer is by far, the best ECM the General has yet to produce.

The LS1 engine comes in a MAF form, upon some scouring of LS1 boards and tuning forums, all I noticed was how everyone wanted to convert their car from MASS AIR to Speed Density. The LS1 PCM allows this when you have the proper tuning, but its basically freaking the sensor out into thinking that the MAF is out of range, when it does that it goes into Speed Density mode.

My thinking is, why bother with MAF ? I never really liked it anyhow, its great for a daily driver car, not as good for a HI-PO combination.

Cooling issues, AC issues, Exhaust issues are all a concern but the biggest concern I have at this point, is the OIL PAN, if I can sneak it in between the fenders and bolt it down tight with a complete bottom end, you boys better hold on. I am hoping to have a quick RELIABLE truck thats running on Twin Turbo LS1 power. I wasnt going to post or even mention it on the BBS until it was complete (or close to) but I felt Barry needed some backup. For those of you posting that Barry has a half assed idea or has NO idea what he is contemplating, the only response I have is that you truly are clueless.
Barry was on the 'list' before most of you (and me for that matter) had trucks. Barry is a smart Mo-Fo, just has had some bad luck with the 4.3's and to be perfectly frank, I agree with him 100% about reliability of the 4.3L under boost apps. Sure it can run 200k on a street engine, hell, mine ran 110k on a BOOSTED application. However its my opinion that the 4.3L becomes far unreliable and waaaaaaaaaaay out of my budget to really stand on to make it reliable. Sure U can throw in a forged crank, billet bowtie block, blah blah blah... But to me, the LS1 is the state of the art motor, frankly, it plain rocks, in NA form it puts down 330hp. With twin turbo's and a good intercooler who knows ? At 10# of boost I have seen multiple sheets WELL inexcess of 500hp (remember thats 10# of boost on PUMP GAS).

Anyhow, donning the flame suit since i'm sure there are people that are going to tell me I am no longer going to have a Typhoon, blah blah blah. Blow its out yer arse, personally I dont care. Its my truck and if I can reasonably help it, its going to have a Twin Turbo LS1 under the hood. I commend Barry for making the post and exposing himself to the firestorm that was sure in ensue. Barry and I have been talking via email and I had mentioned that wasnt, worthwhile to post anything since there is undoubtedly nobody that wants to see/hear it, however I was proven wrong by BG, Myclone and a couple of others that seem to be supporting the conversion. Glad some people appreciate the swap and the wanting-ness to push these trucks in a different direction.

 

[myclone]

Sounds like a neat idea for the LS1 swap.. While personally Im sticking with the V6 stuff just cause I like to be weird/stubborn I say go for it. In reality I prolly should throw a V8 in myclone as I dont have the spare cashola to reliably make big numbers on a V6, Hell, Ive been working on a build much like Turbo Tony's even before he showed up at the 02 nats for over two years now :roll: . And its STILL a bare block on the engine stand :roll: :roll: .

My point? I guess that personally I prefer the V6 stuff since I did the V8 stuff for eons and got tired of it. On the other hand I could have long since been in the low tens if I woulda put the same money in a V8 which gets me back to just being too damned stubborn/hard headed to do it. The one thing I keep in mind is, and maybe its just me, there is something a little extra cool about being able to wow the crowd with big numbers then only for them to find out it was done with a little ol V6. That part I enjoy quite a bit. With a V8 you dont get the ooh ahhh factor quite as much but then again you can have a blast with a mere mortal budget.

Lastly, I remember Barry from reading the list archives when I was trying to gather all the info I could on chipping. His name came up NUMEROUS times and just by what he posted he is/was one of the pioneers.

 

[Sy#26]

Ok, we're rolling on the SBC L31 swap.

What I propose is to start two new threads, "SBC-L31" for my install of that engine in my Sy. If tony's agreeable, maybe he could document his LS1 swap under the thread "SBC-LS1".

I'll be posting pix as appropriate to Jesse's site:
http://huryde.station180.com/gallery/albums.php?&set_albumListPage=2
under "Barry's Stuff". Check there for stuff, as its a PIA to upload, put here as an

 

[Tydriver]

Ok, we're rolling on the SBC L31 swap.

What I propose is to start two new threads, "SBC-L31" for my install of that engine in my Sy. If tony's agreeable, maybe he could document his LS1 swap under the thread "SBC-LS1".

I'll be posting pix as appropriate to Jesse's site:
http://huryde.station180.com/gallery/albums.php?&set_albumListPage=2
under "Barry's Stuff". Check there for stuff, as its a PIA to upload, put here as an etc.[/quote]

Actually, whatever works is fine with me.. I'm gonna try to get a webpage up so I can update stuff as I go along. I wanted to chronical the swap over step by step with as many pics as I can along the way.. I just need to get a webserver with decent download rates if anyone cares to see the swap.

 

[Falco]

Barry and Todd! I encourage you (even if this makes no difference) to complete your projects. IMHO the boosted V8 application have their grounds in our little trucks and these projects are definately a big step into the right direction. This is not the only way for sure, but I really like it and would appreciate any idea and experience you guys care to share...

Later,

 

[Sy769]

Todd you traitor. Why would you ruin a perfectly good Ty? Real Tys were and always will be V6's. Why don't you chop up a blazer? :agrue:













:wink: If I had the money I'd have a TT LS1 in my truck Yesterday. Do take notes, part numbers, pictures etc. 8) This is one project I'd love to be the pioneer on. Too bad the wife's new V6 cost so much. Hard to believe that I started that project 2 yrs ago.
Keep us posted.

 

[smeagol]

LS1 will offer diminishing returns (bang for the buck-wise) if you plan on going for big hp or turbocharging it.

Buy some headgaskets now. I suggested it for Barry since he was planning on supercharging it, and only wanted consistent 11s in a Syclone.

 

[THEMADTYPH00N]

I heard that the LS1 doesn't respond to boost very well and that an LT1 or some other V8 would be a better choice for a forced induction application. With that said I encourage both Todd and Berry to forge ahead with these projects. I'm very interested to see how they turn out. Like myclone I also prefer the V6 stuff just for the sake of being different. But I guess in the end it all comes down to how fast your going.

 

[Syborg Twin Turbo]

I tought i would post what it has cost me so far to build my budget aluminum v6 build. I've purchase most of the parts used (but virgin). So some of the prices you see will be low. But i'm still over 12 grand for a friggin v6 and i bet i have another 4 grand to go.

Looking back i wish i would have done a v8 in the Sonoma GT. I've already spent $12,274.35 and it's still not complete. Know i can't even afford a can of v8 juice

 

[Tydriver]

Guys, please understand one thing. I am at this point not looking for a SUPER-HIGH HORSEPOWER motor. I am not bolting the LS1 in because I plan to eeeeek every last ounce of every last little cube thats in it. Rather, I want to run around 10-12# of boost. There are numerous combinations that will net well over 500 RWHP on PUMP GAS. Combining those #'s with 93 octane pump gas, and AWD (yes that is staying, no RWD for me), rule justabout anything on the street. The times shouldnt change a whole lot between track and street.

With that said, someday in the future I may elect to do more boost etc, to squeeze out more torque, but for now I think 500 ponies +/- would be decent, AND RELIABLE.

I know Tony and Nolan and a small handful of others have gone fast with semi-stock combinations and ALOT OF BOOST on a 4.3L. I guess one of my reasons for doing this, is that its kinda put a new spin on my truck for me. To be frank, I was getting tired of the SyTy scene, also I may add that this is the most excited I have been about my truck in a very VERY long time. Also, I wanted something different, I guess thats the story of my life, when I first started looking at SyTys, I said I was never going to own an ALL black Typhoon, or an all white Typhoon (syclones are out of the question for me since I am 6'6" ) because there are soooo many of them (no offense guys, I just wanted something different). Hence my searching for Typhoons was limited to ONLY the obscure color trucks, the Aspens, Royals, Teals, etc. I wasnt going to own a color that you'd see every day. In the end I think I succeeded on that task. My plans are simple. Make sure it will fit, if not then I will sell on Ebay, and go LT-1. I have alot of good people supporting me and my dreams with this conversion. I guarantee you, if there is a way I can get it done, I will give my best effort.

With that said, I hope you guys arent expecting to see me lay down like 800-900hp or anything on the dyno. To be perfectly honest, my budget wont/doesnt/cant support that. I also dont want the maintenance headaches that come along with sucha build. While it would be cool, I am no Nolan or Tony... I dont want to work on this thing every weekend. I hope this clears matters up some, I want you guys to understand where I am coming from and what my goals are in this project.

 

[Syborg Twin Turbo]

With that said, I hope you guys arent expecting to see me lay down like 800-900hp or anything on the dyno. To be perfectly honest, my budget wont/doesnt/cant support that. I also dont want the maintenance headaches that come along with sucha build. While it would be cool, I am no Nolan or Tony... I dont want to work on this thing every weekend. I hope this clears matters up some, I want you guys to understand where I am coming from and what my goals are in this project.

I personally can't wait to see it. Heck look what lingenfelter did with the awd sonoma. If you need pics of the sonoma i can post them. I have about 50 pics of almost every detail. I would have traded the Marlboro in a heart beat for that truck.

Please keep us posted on your build and if you need a place to host your pics i can set up a gallery for you on sportmachines.

 

[crazy151drinker]

Has anyone here installed a buick v-6? I mean if we are going the v-8 route we can might as well. The buick v-6 aftermarket is incredibly strong and we have all seen the grandnationals hit 7's. It seems that the buick v-6 is able to handle the power. Just a thought.
As far as a TT LS1, by all means go for it. Just keep it AWD.
Those 427ci C5 motors are sweet, but I cant seem to find my $25k.....

 

[smeagol]

Buick V6's have some problems, and they are getting more scarce, as well as more expensive to build. You really don't solve too many issues by going this route over the 4.3. The 4.3 has a LOT available for fairly cheap compared to Buicks.

LS1's will start having head gasket issues once you get to the 600-700hp level from what I've seen. There are many in the 400-500hp range, but beyond that... few have ventured that far. The very fast LS1 cars are either a) very very light or b) are using the HUGE $$ C5R parts (or both).

For LS1 research, ya gotta go to www.ls1tech.com For turbo research, lookup Turbohawk on the board (twin turbo LS1 [6 speed no less] that runs 10.0's). His buildup/tuning procedures/philosophies should be a model for every other forced induction LS1 owner.