Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

s10blaza

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Some of you know I just got my hands on a low mileage complete balance shaft Vortec that I will be using to replace the blown motor in the Ty. I have probably read hundreds of threads by now, sadly, many have broken links and many pictures are long gone.

I have a very good idea on what needs to be done to swap it over. My intake got dropped off today to get welded, I have the fittings for the oil drain and my NPT taps should be here any minute now (for the knock sensor and oil pan), the 1203 gaskets are ordered, I received my 3 bar this morning and a buddy gave me a brand new LSU4.2 Bosch wideband 02 sensor (looking for a good controller, I'm looking at the LC-1)

Short of drilling the heads for the new pattern, I think that's basically all that needs to get done, I would just like to know of any issues/problems that some of you guys have run into while swapping over, I need FEEDBACK!

This is going to be a reliability build with a fresh stock turbo and a stock vortec longblock until the economic situation gets better. Now, what worries me is the tune. As much as I've researched and read, its still an overwhelming subject. I know with a stock chip and no tune I wouldn't be able to go past 8psi without endangering the motor

Eventually I'll be tuning myself with code 59 and I have started gathering parts, but since its not something you learn overnight, I'm hoping an e-tune from Nolan will have to suffice to at least get going without blowing this motor up.

I had been trying to avoid the whole alky/meth chapter until I read about the new ISAC controller. It addresses my biggest fears about injecting alky, with a progressive controller, boost control, leanout protection etc...

So what it boils down to is I what would be better as far as as tuning for reliability? I can get the ISAC system and start injecting and tune for no knock, or get a "mail order" tune and leave it alone until I gather the rest of the necessary parts and knowledge to start tuning on my own?
 
TYTILIDIE

TYTILIDIE

METH HEAD
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

I think you are better off learning to tune on your own. Alky set ups are pretty reliable from what I have seen. In the long run, it shouldn't be any more scary than a fuel pump going bad. People used to tell me to get alky all the time but like you, I didn't think it sounded "safe". Well, once I got it, I didn't get why I never did it in the first place. I mean hell, if I could go back, I wold have kept my Ty stock and just had a tune and alky injection.
 
s10blaza

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

TYTILIDIE said:
I think you are better off learning to tune on your own. Alky set ups are pretty reliable from what I have seen. In the long run, it shouldn't be any more scary than a fuel pump going bad. People used to tell me to get alky all the time but like you, I didn't think it sounded "safe". Well, once I got it, I didn't get why I never did it in the first place. I mean hell, if I could go back, I wold have kept my Ty stock and just had a tune and alky injection.
Click to expand...


Yeah, that's basically what the ISAC unit is capable of. Its a progressive alky controller, boost controller, datalogger all in one with several safety nets and it seems like it fits my needs perfectly

This way if the pump ever fails to come on, I won't be pushing 15+ psi on pump gas and 9:1 CR.

Basically, short term, I'm looking to spray alky/water to stop knock and bring the IATs down with the higher compression motor and just enjoy the truck until I can buy all the equipment needed for code 59 and then have it perfectly dialed in
 
skwayb

skwayb

NWSTP
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

s10blaza said:
I received my 3 bar this morning and a buddy gave me a brand new LSU4.2 Bosch wideband 02 sensor (looking for a good controller, I'm looking at the LC-1)
Click to expand...

I would stay away from the LC-1. Seen several of them stop working and need to be fixed, lose thier calibration and thus make you tune your motor with the wrong info... etc.

I had installed several PLX units and they are very nice. They even give you feed back while trying to start the motor. Most WB units don't do that. Plus it is a very small package. They are about the same price as the LC-1. Just my 2 cents.
 
BMFB

BMFB

Not to scale
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

I have a funny question, if your running a wideband O2 sensor, do you need a controller if your running code 59? I thought you took the wires right off the sensor and hardwired it into the ecm, and then tuned it from there. i didnt think you needed a controller to do that, is that just to run it with the stock computer, or am i missing something important?
 
skwayb

skwayb

NWSTP
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

Without the controller, the wideband won't work. Our ECM doesn't haven't the circuitry to power the Wideband Sensor heater Circuit. The controller provides power to the Sensor to keep it heated and reads the information from the sensor. The controller then has outputs that you wire to the ECM for Code59 to read. Also you never run a wideband without the controller not being powered. It will damage the wideband sensor.
 
jklein68

jklein68

Donating Member
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

Are you planning to use the stock pistons and rods from the Vortec? Is there any concern with having too much compression, I thought stock Vortecs were over 9:1? What RPM can the stock rods take?

Jason
 
s10blaza

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

jklein68 said:
Are you planning to use the stock pistons and rods from the Vortec? Is there any concern with having too much compression, I thought stock Vortecs were over 9:1? What RPM can the stock rods take?

Jason
Click to expand...

Yes, 9.2:1 isn't an ungodly high compression, the Vortec head design is much less prone to knock and I plan to compensate the higher compression with alky and a good tune. The hypereutectic pistons on the Vortecs are the same thing used on the SyTys, with the SyTy pistons having a deeper dish, there are s10 and fullsize guys pushing 12+psi on stock uncracked blocks
 
s10blaza

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

skwayb said:
I would stay away from the LC-1. Seen several of them stop working and need to be fixed, lose thier calibration and thus make you tune your motor with the wrong info... etc.

I had installed several PLX units and they are very nice. They even give you feed back while trying to start the motor. Most WB units don't do that. Plus it is a very small package. They are about the same price as the LC-1. Just my 2 cents.
Click to expand...


Noted, did a quick search and looks like the PLX controller is the way to go, glad they sell it minus the sensor as well :tup:
 
jwaller

jwaller

Evil Genius/SyTy Guru
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

you MUST also tune your engines fuel cuvre's for alky. not only is it nice to have a progressive alky controller but you have to take fuel out to make it work.
 
jklein68

jklein68

Donating Member
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

With your alky kit, I take that you're planning on running over 15+ psi. I'm trying to stay on pump gas and wondering if I can get away with higher compression and a 60mm turbo below 15 psi vs. lower compression and a 66mm turbo at 15+ psi.

Let me know if I'm hijacking this thread and I can post somewhere else, it' not my intent.

Thanks!

Jason
 
Don W.

Don W.

Stab it and steer it
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

My only suggestion is to use formagasket or equiv around ALL openings on BOTH the heads and manifold. Even at the rear because the head and gasket are "open" while the manifold is blocked off.

Reason: some of the areas where the manifold joins the heads leave little room for error.

On build up just set the manifold in the valley, no gaskets, and make sure you have a gap between the manifold and block. You do not want the manifold touching the block just a nice even small gap. There's even a spec but my books aren't here.

On final install use the distributor as an alignment tool so that the manifold is "centered" on the block.

I use Black RTV on the block with no leaks. Bring it up onto the gasket on each corner and you should be good.

You prolly know all this but thought I'd throw it out anyway.

Good luck with the tune. :tup:
 
J

JayC

Buick dude
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

The ISAC is very easy to tune. I can generally have it dialed in in about 5 pulls on the dyno.

Something I wanted to touch base on that Ive seen mentioned here, the ISAC is NOT a progressive controller. I think it may be the only controller on the market that isnt progressive. It sets up like a progressive unit with initial flow versus rise/psi however with the sliders, you have complete control over the curve at various points throughout your designated RPM range. If you leave all the sliders at 0, you have a basic progressive setup. Once you start tweaking the sliders, you have a non linear system, which is really the best way to go.

I also like the PLX wideband but Ive had good luck with the LC1s. About the only unit I would stay away from is the AEM. The ISAC will work with it but AEM's units dont match up to their own voltage output specs so your AEM gauge and your ISAC readings wont be the same. Its an internal grounding issue with the AEM units. We'll address a "fix" for it in a future software update however it will simply be a variable to skew the reading and make it match up with the gauge.
 
R

red typhoon

Member
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

hi guy . sorry for the dum question but what is the plus side of intalling a 4.3 96 and newer on a ty do this block hold more power are the better quality or are the the same.
 
s10blaza

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

Finally got around to uploading all my pictures


Here's the engine, completely torn down and cleaned up, everything looks good underneath

35e64a52.jpg


Oil pan mods

DSCF3983.jpg


Added a lil JB weld here to reinforce the threads

DSCF3984.jpg



Had to do some grinding to get everything to on smoothly

DSCF3988.jpg


I finally re-powdercoated my intake, here's a close-up of the welding, still need to port-match everything

501c8b36.jpg

Cylinder heads in great shape, I just need to drill them for the new bolt pattern

4f116c0c.jpg




So everything was going great until this


554f1d12.jpg






One of the water lines in my house burst flooding my bathroom, garage and bedroom! When it rains it pours, literally!!
 
s10blaza

s10blaza

BOOSTED
Re: Vortec engine swaps, come on in.

Tonight's progress, drilled and tapped for the knock sensor

bb31e223.jpg


79591cd1.jpg


I forgot what it gets torqued to, was it 14 ft. lbs?
 
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