stupid abs!

[sytyguy]

Re: stupid abs!

Years ago people pulled out electronic ignition systems and put POINT BACK IN THEIR CARS ??????????

They also ordered cars with Generators. As they did not want that new MYSTERY ALTERNATOR OPTION????

Me and you.....we've danced this dance before.

Is it so crazy to think that people may want to get rid of a 20 year old system that was failure prone when new? How insane is to think that eliminating an unreliable variable in something as crucial as braking is a good thing? How many collisions have we seen on here because someone expected to have working ABS under braking, only to have the pedal go to the floor and an accident occur? How long are you gonna insist that departure from early 90's GM's way of thinking is unforgiveable? We're not removing a late model BMW ABS system here.....

I support people's decision to keep ABS as much as I do to remove it. Perhaps you should do the same and quit comparing those who choose to delete their ABS to the technophobes of 1960's.

[smashes the soapbox with a BFH]

 

[TYRODD]

Re: stupid abs!

 

[MoJo]

Re: stupid abs!

This. It seems like (IMHO) that since these trucks are older and require tools most independent shops might not have, they're less likely to want to do it or, when done, do it improperly. They treat it like a regular part of the system or try and bleed it the old fashioned way.

FWIW: I purchased the Wilmar W82010 for $2.60ea from Amazon.

The worst part about bleeding them wasn't the 1 1/2 quarts of fluid I ran through the system, or the black(ish) fluid that I drained out... it was the sound of my oldest son saying "AGAIN?!?" when I asked him to push and hold as I bled the same wheel for the 20th time (to get all the air and old fluid out!). :rotf:

-P

I prefer to believe the service managers at a auto repair shops are too embarrassed to give a customer a bill for $390 - $400 to cover the time it takes for one person to bleed ABS brakes without the proper tools. The service manager will tell the customer whose brakes are out.... "Sorry, we cannot get to it for a couple of weeks" If the repair shop cannot get acceptable brakesl they stop working on it and bill the customer $90 for a standard brake bleed job then tell the customer " That is the best we could do. You need at $1,200 rebuilt ABS module ".

Mechanics at auto repair shops must furnish their own tools unless they are just oil and grease monkeys.The $8 per hour + percentage auto repairmen buys his tools from Snap-On, Cornwell, or Mac Tools on credit and would never buy a tool from AMAZON where they must pay cash. One man could bleed the entire ABS system by using a pressure bleeder. But, again, those things cost lots of money and it would take a mechanic a year or two to get a fair return on his investment. .

. I wonder how many times per year a "professional" mechanic at a auto repair shop would use three combination valve depressor tools at the same time?

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

I prefer to believe the service managers at a auto repair shops are too embarrassed to give a customer a bill for $390 - $400 to cover the time it takes for one person to bleed ABS brakes without the proper tools. The service manager will tell the customer whose brakes are out.... "Sorry, we cannot get to it for a couple of weeks" If the repair shop cannot get acceptable brakesl they stop working on it and bill the customer $90 for a standard brake bleed job then tell the customer " That is the best we could do. You need at $1,200 rebuilt ABS module ".

Mechanics at auto repair shops must furnish their own tools unless they are just oil and grease monkeys.The $8 per hour + percentage auto repairmen buys his tools from Snap-On, Cornwell, or Mac Tools on credit and would never buy a tool from AMAZON where they must pay cash. One man could bleed the entire ABS system by using a pressure bleeder. But, again, those things cost lots of money and it would take a mechanic a year or two to get a fair return on his investment. .

. I wonder how many times per year a "professional" mechanic at a auto repair shop would use three combination valve depressor tools at the same time?

Fair enough. Giving the mechanic the benefit of the doubt, it's probably not something most shops see often enough.

As far as the depressors, I had a hard time finding them, so it's reasonable to assume that there aren't enough people out there to create a reasonable demand. Now that I have my ABS unit out, I'll never use them again. If I sell the module, I'll throw them in for the next guy! :tup:

-P

 

[Black Knight]

Re: stupid abs!

TYRODD:boink:

 

[REVEREND HARMON]

Re: stupid abs!

I have been servicing ABS since Day one and can bleed a system in an hour TOPS. Their is no mystery in it. Up north here brake lines rust out constantly and i replace each and every one of them. I do an enormous amount of chevys and S10 vehicles with absolutely no issues. I have a pressure bleeder and dont even use it much. Bleeding is not BRAIN SURGERY. It is something we do every day in the shop and dont give it one single THOUGHT. It is an easy task and i for the life of me cant understand how people mess it UP. Brake bleeding is a must in every shop. How else can a mechanic work on brake components that dont know how to bleed the system. Makes no sense to me. My friends that work in dealers have absolutely no issues with Bleeding Brakes. It is a no brainier simple JOB. And the ABS controller has bleed screws right on it. GM has a procedure to do it correctly. Just MY $.02


NOTE I have removed my ABS in my TYPHOON. But i have been converting it to corvette 4 wheel DISCS. When i am finished i will post photos if you like.

:horse:

 

[REVEREND HARMON]

Re: stupid abs!

I know you use that beating a dead horse line all the time. And your take on the ISSUE. Just curious??

No sir i dont use it all the time BUT, since you asked about the issue.....you keep spouting the same regurgitated gunk in threads....get your panties in a wad, then delete what you typed. Why is that? You afraid to look like even more of a ass?

Just curious?

Now my take on the thread......its proven that the stock abs units are junk and cause a huge problem. My opinion-----if its a low millage minty truck, keep it in....if its a truck your building to beat on and have fun with, rip that chit out! Now that i have repeated what everyone else has said, anyone wanna put a beating dead horse quoted on me please?

 

[SyTyAddict]

Re: stupid abs!

If I had a really low mile mint truck, I would probably leave the abs unit in so that it is "correct," just unplug the main power plug to the abs unit so there's no risk of it malfunctioning. I would prefer the wheels lock up rather than the pedal going to the floor.

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

If I had a really low mile mint truck, I would probably leave the abs unit in so that it is "correct," just unplug the main power plug to the abs unit so there's no risk of it malfunctioning. I would prefer the wheels lock up rather than the pedal going to the floor.

Like I said... for originality or "correctness", I'd keep it. Any other reason it's a liability.

-P

 

[92AcademyPhooner]

Re: stupid abs!

No... actually you can bleed it completely without the Tech1. There's a pretty solid proceedure to getting the air out. :tup:

1: Using a baster, remove all the old fluid from the brake reservoir. Refill to line.

2: On each side of the side of the ABS unit is a bypass bolt. Break it open 1/4-1/2 turn.

3: Place 3 ABS drepressor clips (Kent-Moore No. J39177 or Wilmar W82010) over the rear of the combination valve,and 2 holding open the high-pressure accumulator bleed valves.

4: Holding the brake pedal down, open the top bleed screw on the right side first.

5: Close bleed screw, release pedal.

6: Wait 15 seconds (MUST!), check fluid level.

7: Repeat 4-6 until clean fluid and no air bubbles are seen.

8: When the right side is done on the module, repeat 4-7 with left side.

9: Close bypass bolts on each side.

10: Bleed remainder of system at wheel cylinders in this order: RR, LR, RF, LF. Remember to wait 15 seconds after you release the pedal before you reapply brakes during bleeding. This allows the system to recover fluid.

11: (Optional) Repeat entire process 1 more time.

There you go!

-P

(Thanks to DaveP and some Kelsey-Hayes 4WAL articles I found online!)

I'm really sorry, but is there any way you can take a picture of the three places I would have to put the depression clips? I know you posted this awhile ago, but I could surely us the help. Or are there really only three places you can put them? Thank a lot.

 

[92AcademyPhooner]

Re: stupid abs!

:horse:

Hey HARMON,

Do you know where I can find the GM procedures for bleeding my TY's ABS block? Can't really find it. The directions at the beginning of this thread were great, but I just wanted to see what GM laid out for the procedures. Anything would be great. Thanks.

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

I'm really sorry, but is there any way you can take a picture of the three places I would have to put the depression clips? I know you posted this awhile ago, but I could surely us the help. Or are there really only three places you can put them? Thank a lot.

You take these:

Place them onto the ABS high-pressure accumulator bleed valves (under the rubber caps)

and on the proportioning valve under the master cylinder (back side, by firewall).

It's easy... don't make it hard.

-P

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

You need a tech2 scan tool if myemory serves me correctly!

Still no. I've documented it a half dozen times. If you haven't tried it personally, I'd listen instead.

-P

 

[jimmyz79]

Re: stupid abs!

I've had it with this damn ABS...Just ordered a bypass kit.

Two master cylinders, two abs units, new calipers, new wheel cylinders...I've bled this thing ever way possible with a swimming pool of fluid. Still no pedal holding pressure & no leaks...

With todays tech, why can't someone just find a way to adapt some other GM model that works???

Rant over...

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

I've had it with this damn ABS...Just ordered a bypass kit.

Two master cylinders, two abs units, new calipers, new wheel cylinders...I've bled this thing ever way possible with a swimming pool of fluid. Still no pedal holding pressure & no leaks...

With todays tech, why can't someone just find a way to adapt some other GM model that works???

Rant over...

Did you do it right? My instructions are solid.

-P

 

[jimmyz79]

Re: stupid abs!

Yeah, I did...

Even went out and did some slam braking, and came home and bled it again...same result...

One thing that did puzzle me, is that the accumulator valves on both ABS units, when they were in normal mode (not depressed), one always stuck out further than the other...

Did you do it right? My instructions are solid.

-P

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Yeah, I did...

Even went out and did some slam braking, and came home and bled it again...same result...

One thing that did puzzle me, is that the accumulator valves on both ABS units, when they were in normal mode (not depressed), one always stuck out further than the other...

Without knowing how/what exactly you did it's difficult to troubleshoot. It's also entirely possible you just have a shit unit.

I still stand by my instructions. If followed, they won't fail.

-P

 

[jimmyz79]

Re: stupid abs!

Without knowing how/what exactly you did it's difficult to troubleshoot. It's also entirely possible you just have a shit unit.

I still stand by my instructions. If followed, they won't fail.

-P

Its got to be krap units, and I am not about to empty my retirement plan to fix it.
I've always agreed with Dave P. on getting these things to run as designed, but I have to disagree with him on this component. The Kelsey-Hays guys designed this thing on Monday morning after a weekend in Vegas...

 

[Throws]

Re: stupid abs!

Its got to be krap units, and I am not about to empty my retirement plan to fix it.
I've always agreed with Dave P. on getting these things to run as designed, but I have to disagree with him on this component. The Kelsey-Hays guys designed this thing on Monday morning after a weekend in Vegas...

Maybe.... but the big killer for these units is the brakes not being bled at the caliper before doing a pad change. Everyone does what they've always done, and just pushes the piston back into the caliper.... all the crap that's collected in the lines goes right back into that crazy sensitive box. That and bleeding the system without bleeding the high-pressure side are (mostly) why they end up not working. That and a weekend bender in Vegas.

We've got to remember, these systems were cutting edge back in the day... now, not so much.

-P

 

[RealFastV6]

Re: stupid abs!

I've had it with this damn ABS...Just ordered a bypass kit.

:tup: