Top end questions

[King_Ice_Flash]

I have a 2WD 2003 S10 4.3L with a Bill Mach turbo kit and RPM intake with 48LB injectors, and a Vigilante 3000RPM torque converter. It has a T3/T4 inovative turbo with unknown specs, but it is pretty much maxed out at 14PSI. I currently shift at 5200 RPM.

I was looking at re-doing the top end on my S10, and had a few questions.

Is the .072 thickness, 4.060 bore SCE ICS Titan head gasket the one I want?
I have the LU3 block. It comes with 9.2:1 compression ratio stock, but it already has the Vortec heads which I noticed a few of you were switching to, but I can't find the CR calculations for the SY motor. What compression ratio do you guys end up with after switching to the Vortec heads?

Bore 4.00 (inches)
Stroke 3.484 (inches)
Rod Length 5.7 (inches)
Cyl. Head Vol. 64 (cc)
Deck Height 0.030 (inches)
Head Gasket Bore 4.166 (inches)
Head Gasket Thickness 0.040 (inches)
Piston to Cyl. Wall Clearance 0.003 (inches)
Top Ring Land Height 0.25 (inches)
Piston Dome Vol. -6.2 (cc)
9.409604426672894

With .072/4.060 bore gasket
8.827884955734762

I'm also about to install the Comp 266 I have laying around with the comp 787 retainers and locks. It isn't the custom grind, but it was cheep. I have some LS6 valve springs. Are these going to be too stiff? Everyone else seems to be using LS1 springs.
LS6 Valve Spring
Free Length = 53.40 mm2.10 in
Valve Spring Installed Height = 45.75 mm1.8 in
Valve Spring Pressure - Closed = 400 N at 45.75 mm90 lb at 1.8 in
Valve Spring Pressure - Open = 1150 N at 32.42 mm259 lb at 1.28 in

LS1, LS2, LS4 Valve Spring
Free Length = 52.9 mm2.08 in
Valve Spring Installed Height = 45.75 mm1.8 in
Valve Spring Pressure - Closed = 340 N at 45.75 mm76 lb at 1.8 in
Valve Spring Pressure - Open = 980 N at 33.55 mm220 lb at 1.32 in

I ended up acquiring another turbo, but I am wondering if it is too big:
T70 Master Power Turbo 450-700hp "P-Trim"
Compressor
-58 Trim Inducer Wheel
.70 A/R w/ 4"(101.7mm) inlet and 2.5"(64mm) outlet

Turbine
-76 Trim Exducer Wheel (P-Trim)
.68 A/R TURBINE HOUSING w/ standard T4 undivided Inlet and an 3" v-band outlet.

 

[IpHoOnDyou]

Re: Top end questions

Im gonna say it before others do, this is the wrong forum man!! This is for Syclones an Typhoons, yes you have a turbo blazer! No its not a sy or ty, im not trying to scare you away im just speaking from exsperiance of this forum an how well they accept "blazers an jimmy" owners. We are a proud bunch of guys.....an some gals, im sure if you search a little on here you will find your answer bud. Have fun an good luck sir
Steve

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: Top end questions

Im gonna say it before others do, this is the wrong forum man!! This is for Syclones an Typhoons, yes you have a turbo blazer! No its not a sy or ty, im not trying to scare you away im just speaking from exsperiance of this forum an how well they accept "blazers an jimmy" owners. We are a proud bunch of guys.....an some gals, im sure if you search a little on here you will find your answer bud. Have fun an good luck sir
Steve

A turbo 4.3 is a turbo 4.3, no matter what it's in. All the same rules still apply. Especially now with more people swappin in entire 96+ Vortec engines into their SyTy


I've never owned a Syty and I been here almost 11 years. Wow. Thats a long time lol

 

[King_Ice_Flash]

Re: Top end questions

If there was a website dedicated to turbocharged second generation s-series, I would be all over it, but syty.net has by far more knowledgeable users with regard to the inner workings of a turbocharged 4.3L than any other place I know of. Unfortunately there are only a hand full of members on the board where I frequently visit with boosted S10s, and most of them are supercharged. The lack of a competent speed shop remotely close to where I live also rules out that possibility. If it is any consolation, my friends TY was the inspiration to build this truck, and almost bought one, but found out I am way too big for it.

 

[Horsehammerr]

Re: Top end questions

Im gonna say it before others do, this is the wrong forum man!! This is for Syclones an Typhoons, yes you have a turbo blazer! No its not a sy or ty, im not trying to scare you away im just speaking from exsperiance of this forum an how well they accept "blazers an jimmy" owners. We are a proud bunch of guys.....an some gals, im sure if you search a little on here you will find your answer bud. Have fun an good luck sir
Steve

Like he said " We are a PROUD bunch " as in " a LEGEND in their own minds ! " If you don't have multiple $'s in your ride , save your breath.:myclone:

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Top end questions

To the original poster......Don't listen to those particular haters above. I've been around for MANY years and have never owned a truck. Had a 4cyl S10 for awhile, and was accepted just the same. There are plenty of people here that are willing to help, and this is THE place to be for turbocharged 4.3 help. You obviously aren't trying to bash on anyone, and are just looking for help. No harm, no foul there, and those that think you are can pound sand in my opinion as that isn't even remotely close to the attitude that I think the people that frequent this board embody.

To help answer your question, there are a couple 2nd gen S10 members here that have fought your particular battle before. I can't remember their username, so I'm not a huge help. I'm even having a hard time remembering their actual name at this point. I'll see if I can dig up that info for you, so maybe you can PM the people that have the knowledge you're looking for. I remember one of them was at the original Sy/Ty Shindig in FL a couple years back. Running a late model block/heads, and ECU as well. It was a burgundy extended cab 2wd truck. It'll come to me!

Good luck with the build, and stick around to let us know what works/doesn't for you. That's the easiest way to build repor with this crowd, returning good technical information for discussion.

 

[SyTyAddict]

Re: Top end questions

I wouldn't be so quick to run the OP off, like mentioned above, he's talking about a turbo 4.3. He isn't here asking what it would take to build a 800whp Ls1 to go in his DD farm truck or some random pipe dream; he asks legitimate questions that pertains to extremely similar engines as we have. There are many people here that have done Vortec head conversions and have tons of knowledge about turbos and aftermarket convertors, who should be able to answer his questions.

Like he said above, there isn't a specific turbo 4.3 forum, this is hands down the closest thing he will find.

 

[Gnocide]

Re: Top end questions

our compression is in the 8.5 to 1 range

so thick head gaskets to lower compression and run more boost.

.72-.90 thickness whatever but 9.xx is better lowered
not all 4.3 is the same(Chevy/gmc odd fire /even fire etc)

the turbo is probably not gonna help until you doing 40-60- it appears too big
that's all im qualified to answer.

 

[nallj92]

Re: Top end questions

Valve springs are fine


Head gaskets- yeah that will work, dont get too caught up on running lower compression for that extra .6 psi, the stock 9:1 or whatever is good off boost and will help spool the 70mm better anyway.

Turbo's decent, should be right in the best effciency range around 16-20psi.

Stall's ok, a bit small maybe but should work fine,

Injectors are going to be too small, do the seimens 60lber's

hth

 

[King_Ice_Flash]

Re: Top end questions

Thanks for the advice, I'll order some thicker ones since the .072 were the biggest I saw in stock.

I'm not worried about it. I've been a forum member here long since before they have.

nallj92, for some reason I never saw your post.
Yeah, right now the 3000 RPM torque converter seems decent, but the turbo I have is a little on the small side, so I will probably have a little more lag with the other one.

I agree, the Injectors are probably going to be my next issue after I start adding more boost.

It's good to know those gaskets should be OK at .072. No one has bigger ones in stock.

Next time I'm cruising north, I'll be sure to stop up there and give you a beer.

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Top end questions

Heads up, the newer style intakes don't use traditional injectors. They use some sort of "poppet" valve setup. Subsequently, they can't be easily swapped out to larger one.

Converting to a marine intake, or having an Edelbrock carbed intake converted are about the only options if you need "real" injectors larger than the stockers.

 

[Darin]

Re: Top end questions

I'm fairly certain in 2002 they changed injectors to a normal style, and got rid of the poppet style. Not 100% sure, but seem tor recall that when I was looking to turbo my 2002 ZR2 S10. I'm quite certain the ECU is the same as a LS style (camaro/firebird) etc. It was supposedly pretty easy to tune.

Do not quote me, just from memory and 10+ year ago

 

[midnightbluS10]

Re: Top end questions

I'm fairly certain in 2002 they changed injectors to a normal style, and got rid of the poppet style. Not 100% sure, but seem tor recall that when I was looking to turbo my 2002 ZR2 S10. I'm quite certain the ECU is the same as a LS style (camaro/firebird) etc. It was supposedly pretty easy to tune.

Do not quote me, just from memory and 10+ year ago

The injectors aren't normal. They're still all connected to a central distribution block with feed tubes to each one. Meaning you can't upgrade them like "normal injectors". Your only options are the marine intake or a converted edelbrock.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Top end questions

You maybe have been running out of injector not turbo.

What are your goals?

 

[2kwik4u]

Re: Top end questions

2002.5 (mid year change) is when the style changed from the poppet to the solenoid style innjectors. They are still fed from a central distribution point though, so upgrades are almost impossible. I say almost as I've seen writeups somewhere on how it can be done, but it's a ton of custom work, that is much easier accomplished with an intake conversion.

The marine intake seems to be a very popular conversion. I know UR50SLO has done it here on at least one occasion with excellent results in his turob Jimmy.

 

[Bad Ass Black Trucks]

Re: Top end questions

What kind of intake manifold do you have? Have you already converted to marine or carb style with 48 lb injectors? Having worked on multiple late model vortech 4.3's I think the poppet style injectors are junk. GM was trying to save a buck and it was a bad idea. If you have the stock manifold you should change that first and foremost. Second get a WBO2 so you know what is going on.

 

[King_Ice_Flash]

Re: Top end questions

What kind of intake manifold do you have? Have you already converted to marine or carb style with 48 lb injectors? Having worked on multiple late model vortech 4.3's I think the poppet style injectors are junk. GM was trying to save a buck and it was a bad idea. If you have the stock manifold you should change that first and foremost. Second get a WBO2 so you know what is going on.

In 2002ish they got rid of EGR and upgraded to the MPFI spider. It was better quality, but still only like 18LB/hr.

Yep, have a wideband and efilive. Tuning is so much easier than the older PCMs. It has a PCM 1MB PCM similar to the 0411. I switched to a 0411 so I could run their COS5, but missed some of the features that the 512K PCM was missing.

RPM 2114 with Racetronix 48LB injectors. It has a block machined for the throttle body with fuel rails welded to it.

My goals? I autocross this truck and drag race every once in a while. I've got like 20K miles on this turbo setup, but it is still too slow the more power I add. If I ever have to pull the motor, I will either get a 2003/2004 LS1 corvette or put a bigger motor in it. The 262 lower end is too expensive to rebuild.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w4/nevinsb/DSC02558.jpg

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w4/nevinsb/s10planet/PICT0037.jpg

 

[s106banger]

Re: Top end questions

i went with felpro mls head gaskets, .040" thick.

ive heard and read too much about copper gaskets leaking.
heard a lot of good things about mls gaskets and from what i read a lot of the guys around here use factory replacement gaskets.

i also kept the 9.2:1 compression. i wanted it to help spool the turbo quicker.

i went with ls6 springs, i actually wanted to do the 918 comps but i couldnt find a deal on them when i had my engine apart.
but ive been using them for 2 or 3 years now and they've been holding up to 5500 rpm shifts with no valve float, and there cheap! $65 per set.

 

[DogsofJune]

Re: Top end questions

Yea! Another boosted non SyTy 4.3.....

I went with Cometic head gaskets but retained the stock compression as s106banger did, plus the LS6 springs.
Bigger injectors, depending on your fuel pressure settings, are going to be needed.

Good to see you back working on this again.
I forget though, you running a MAF still? Or speed density with appropriate MAP?

 

[King_Ice_Flash]

Re: Top end questions

Yea! Another boosted non SyTy 4.3.....

I went with Cometic head gaskets but retained the stock compression as s106banger did, plus the LS6 springs.
Bigger injectors, depending on your fuel pressure settings, are going to be needed.

Good to see you back working on this again.
I forget though, you running a MAF still? Or speed density with appropriate MAP?

I am still running the MAF, but I have a 2.5BAR MAP sensor and am using the extended MAP table from EFILive COS3 so I can use closed loop.