trying to start .... please could someone help?

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

OK,

a few things happened today. First off, the dist is in perfectly. The lash was off and I have adjusted it and the engine now runs and idles almost perfectly apart from two things.

The engine will idle very very well without the FP relay connected. It seems to be running off the residual pressure in the rail. If I attempt to connect the fp relay then it dies almost immediately. I am worried that the guys that put in the immobiliser may have done something funky to it.

I thought it was rich so backed off the fuel pressure to 30 then to 20 psi and that did nothing.

That said, when I jumer the relay the fuel pump runs really well?

The next issue is potentially way more serious. I am getting no oil flowing through the rockers into the valve covers. Everything I have been told suggests that they should be covered in oil and it should be flowing a lot of oil into these areas.

The insides of the covers are bone dry. I know the pump is working as the oil feed to the turb spews out oil from the remote oil filter so that isn't the problem.

How can the rockers and valves be getting denied oil like this?

I thought I was going to have to oull the engine, then thought I didn't need to and now it look like I might be back to square one again.

Damn this truck is a rollercoaster of emotion.

 

[4C FED]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Looky here
Did you prime the oil system prior to starting it?

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Looky here
Did you prime the oil system prior to starting it?

didn't see that but I did see a thread where you had low oil psi and also this one where someone had the same issues I did.

I DID prime it but I have had so many problems that the gas in the cylinders leaked into the oil and thinned it, so I just changed another 5 litres into the truck. After a few seconds the lifters started to look a bit moist :lol: and when the rpms increased there was noticeable splash.

I guess that when you haven't done anything or seen it before it can be a bit dosconcerting especially with the amount of money that these things can swallow!

Now I need to work out the fuel pressure problem. I am thinking of trying to lower the tables in my fuel MAP and see if that fixes it.

The truck idles for a minute or two with ZERO psi and the pump disconnected - I didn't think it would do that?

Wondering if I have a bad relay. A really rich condition would kill the truck right? If I plug the relay in while it is idling it kills the truck. I'm going to make a video of it.

man I am pleased. On a high again....

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

maybe check pushrod length to see if the valves are actually closing?

you were right on man - valves was the problem but it was my retarded lash setting that caused it.

:tup:

 

[4C FED]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

didn't see that but I did see a thread where you had low oil psi and also this one where someone had the same issues I did.

The low oil pressure was due to an aluminum cam bearing seizing on the cam & spinning in the block. I was told by the machine shop that this was a common problem with aluminum cam bearings.

Get a mechanical oil pressure gauge and plumb it into the remote filter mount. It adds great peace of mind since the stock gauge really doesn't tell you squat.

I think Dig already elaborated on the issue with 50lb. injectors.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Is that a good place to mount the sender? Oil pressure is the main gauge I need. I have a 3 gauge pod and don't need tranny temp anymore due to the 4L80E I have (famous last words)

I'll order one. I did see the oil splashing over the lifters more with rpm so I am happy for now. What a relief.

Now to work out this damn injector issue. I might have to mess with the idle table in the truck to get it sitting right by the looks of it.

pleased as punch right now

Thanks for your help so far mate - appreciated :tup:

 

[4C FED]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Is that a good place to mount the sender? Oil pressure is the main gauge I need. I have a 3 gauge pod and don't need tranny temp anymore due to the 4L80E I have (famous last words)

I'll order one. I did see the oil splashing over the lifters more with rpm so I am happy for now. What a relief.

It's an easy place to install it.
Here's what mine looks like.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

nice - I'll get the Autometer Phantom II and run the signal to the cab from a T in that spot.

Any ideas on my fuel issue? It idles PERFECTLY with no fuel pressure for about a minute but if I then turn the pump on it dies.

If I prime it then the pressure remains, so I don't think I have a leaky injector. What else could it be?

I was thinking the fuel map multiplier might be way off but seems uncanny that it would be off enough for it to be idle perfectly.

It starts better than it ever did even when it ran properly before. It's very odd..

 

[syclone0209]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Are you sure the feed and return lines arent reversed.

you might look at this post, i dont think they ever resolved it but it might give you some ideas.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56390&highlight=fuel+pressure

 

[Luke]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Are you sure the feed and return lines arent reversed.

you might look at this post, i dont think they ever resolved it but it might give you some ideas.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56390&highlight=fuel+pressure

I was thinking that too, you do have braided lines right?

 

[1madgumby]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

I will take A little credit in help getting i running for ya. Im glad to here it is running that was the main issue..

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Are you sure the feed and return lines arent reversed.

you might look at this post, i dont think they ever resolved it but it might give you some ideas.

http://www.syty.net/forums/showthread.php?t=56390&highlight=fuel+pressure

That post is the EXACT same issue that I am having - great find - how on earth did you find that?

Thanks!



Fuel lines aren't reversed so far as I can tell. I flushed the lines before connecting them to the rail and had the feed line going straight to the rail on the driver's side. We thought that may have been the case earlier but I verified the routing with the manual.

The return is from the AFPR and straight back to the tank. -8 feed and -6 return - not braided, nitrile rubber. I watched the hose pump fuel when I added it to the rail so I knew which way it was coming out.

There was a ton of gas in the oil so I changed that today and it is now the correct oil mixture so it isn't getting fed from the crank case. There are no PCVs installed yet.

I have been wondering if a multiplier in the fuel table on my BIN is wrong, keeping the fuel injectors open longer. With 0 pressure they have enough to run, but with pressure applied, the injectors flood the engine. Bezerk used the same BIN and his ran though so I am not sure that is it.

Besides, I get the same symptoms with a different BIN. So it's prob not the BIN.

ECM is communicating and giving ALDL data so I doubt I have a faulty ECM.

AJ's lash suggestion was indeed extremely helpful. I have learned a lot with this so far.

This fuel issue is the only thing keeping me from driving the truck really. It does eventually run out of gas and die, but if the initial pressure to prime it is higher it lasts longer - so 42 psi lasts longer than 20 psi that I set it at.

 

[syclone0209]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

wont a truck still start without a chip in it. doesnt it use the limp home fueling. maybe try taking the chip out and starting it.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

hmmm...I'll give that a go. woould limp home be that smooth an idle? damn thing..

 

[syclone0209]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

it would probably run crappy but would negate any settings in the bin that would be causing the injectors to be static or to much pulse width.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

I'll give it a go. If it runs crappy then the injector pulses from the chip are too wide and I need to figure out why.

Soooooo close to having a running truck. Keep them ideas coming, off to sleep now

Thanks!

 

[4C FED]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

You said that there was a lot of gas in the oil. Bad fuel pressure regulators have been known to let gas flow into the motor due to a broken diaphragm.
Take the the vacuum hose off of the fuel pressure regulator and start it. Does gas come out of the nipple on the pressure regulator?
If you have a mightyvac pump, attach it to the pressure regulator nipple and apply 15-20" of vacuum to see if you get any gas out of the nipple.

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

I am pretty sure the gas in the oil was from before - the mixture was flooding the engine due to me having the lash all wrong and just not getting any compression or ignition for a couple of days.

The AFPR is great - it holds steady pressure when the pump is running and there is only a slight pressure drop once it is turned off.

If I leave it overnight it will drop to about 20psi or so. It's brand new although it has sat for 2 years.

I tried sucking gas out the other day to lower the vacuum and got nothing so I am pretty certain it isn't the AFPR.

Going to swap in the stock ECM and BIN and see if I can get it to start. Withoutt this problem it has never started or run better.

It does run out of fuel and is proportional to the pressure I prime the rail with. wonder why it stalls though?

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

OK,

stock ECM and BIN had the exact same issue. There was a strong smell of gas after I had tried to start it with the relay connected so I am going to focus my efforts on the injectors. Then again, the vacuum in the intake stroke shouldn't be that strong seeing as the intake valve is open. Or is it? Damn, where are my NOID lights?

If they were sucking in the vacuum from the rail then it wouldn't matter what ECM/ BIN combo was in as the amount they demanded would be a direct relationship to the vacuum (constant) so changing chips and ECM would have no effect.

I am wondering if the injectors are grounded when the ignition is turned on somehow so they stay open and there is a tiny window where some fuel gets in.

If that's the case, what a perfect coincidence for a perfect idle? The chances of this being correct?

 

[Quickstop [UK]]

Re: trying to start .... please could someone help?

Further to my last. I checked if the injectors were all shorted to ground thus staying open - the ECM is trying to pulse them so something else is making the damn truck run so badly. This was tested on a multi meter as I am waiting for my NOID lights. I doubt they will reveal anything surprising though.

Could the injectors be inverted? IE, pulsing high instead of low so the duty cycles are reversed? They should be the same z as the stockers - is that high z or low z? So maybe I have the wrong z injectors?

What multiplier in the tables do I need to change to make the injectors run lean at idle?