Which engine would you choose?

[Drag SGT]

Alright, there's a lot of options on the table right now for which way to go on the truck. We know we want it to be carburated/v8, but we're having a hard time picking which engine and whether or not to lower the compression and go boosted.

These are our main competitors. If you have another entry, feel more than free to post up a pic and say why.

Competitor #1:
454 600hp 575 Ft. Lbs. Motown Cast Iron Block Motown Lite 220 Aluminum Heads $12,295.00

Specs:

Block: World Motown cast iron billet caps
Crankshaft: Eagle 4340 crankshaft
Balancer: ATI SFI
Connecting Rods: Eagle H-beam 4340
Pistons: Mahle coated/Manley
Piston Rings: Total Seal
Compression: 10.5:1
Bore/Stroke: 454 c.i.d. = 4.250" x 4.000"
Bearings: Clevite H-bearings
Camshaft: Hardcore solid roller lifter
Timing Chain: Hardcore double roller
Cylinder Heads: World Motown 220 (aluminum)
Valves: Manley Severe Duty® (2.080" intake, 1.600" exhaust)
Valve Springs: Hardcore
Retainers: Manley
Valve Locks: Manley
Valve Seals: Hardcore
Rocker Arm Studs: Manley
Pushrods: Hardcore 4340 1 pc.
Pushrod Guide Plates: Hardcore
Rocker Arms: Scorpion aluminum rollers
Oil Pan: Moroso
Oil Pump: Melling/Federal Mogul
Assembly Components: Stainless hardware
Intake Manifold: Motown single plane
Carburetor: Hardcore 1050 cfm (4500 type)
Distributor: MSD
Fuel: Pump gas

Competitor #2:
427 625hp 575 Ft. Lbs. Motown Aluminum Block Aluminum Heads $11,895.00

Specs:

Block: World Motown cast iron billet mains, Motown Lite aluminum, billet mains
Crankshaft: Eagle 4340
Balancer: ATI Super Damper
Connecting Rods: Eagle H-beam 4340
Pistons: Mahle
Compression: 13.75:1
Bore/Stroke: 427 c.i.d. = 4.125" x 4.000"
Bearings: Clevite H-bearings
Camshaft: Hardcore solid roller lifter
Timing Chain: Hardcore double roller
Cylinder Heads: World Motown (iron & alum.)
Valves: Manley Severe Duty (2.080" intake, 1.600" exhaust)
Valve Springs: Hardcore
Pushrods: Hardcore 4340 1 pc.
Pushrod Guide Plates: Hardcore
Rocker Arms: Scorpion aluminum rollers
Oil Pan: Moroso
Oil Pump: Melling/Federal Mogul
Assembly Components: Stainless hardware
Intake Manifold: Motown single plane
Carburetor: Hardcore 1050 cfm (4500 type)
Distributor: MSD
Fuel: Race
Oil Pan: Moroso

Competitor #3:
Any motor you can think of based off of the LS2 carburated version

This is basically the free-for-all category. Go wild. :myclone:

Also. Tell me whether you'd go boosted or not and why. Thanks! The more options I'm able to see right now, the less dissapointed I'll be if I find one down the road that I like.

 

[12secondSY]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

How fast do you want to go?

 

[BigBadSmoosh]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

2.8l v6

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

carbed LSx? why on earth would you do that?

If I built it, big honking roots on a tunnel ram :tup:

 

[12secondSY]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

A few ideas...

Swap pistons and put some form of forced induction on any of the above engines.
Wait for the LS3 and give that a try instead of the LS2 with a carburetor
Turbo LS7 :tup:

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

What are you looking for a in motor? 13.75:1 compression is going to require full time race gas. 10.5:1 will run pump gas. Those motors are for completely different routes.

 

[NOJIMMY]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Hmmmm....
The engines appear to be much the same. Go with whatever makes you happy.
I am not talking about stock specs here. I would reccommend not building to stock specs. That is 1960s technology.

Advantages of a 427:
You can rev a well built 427 higher than a 454 due to the shorter stroke.
Power output can be made the same as any 454 just in a higher RPM band.
Internally balanced.
427 uses the same bore (4.251") as the 427. The 427 stroke accounts for the CI difference (3.76" vs. 4").

Advantages of a 454:
A 454 is generally going to be cheaper to build up.
454's have externally balanced crankshafts. The 4 bolt blocks are drilled to provide for external oil coolers.

As for the 454 itself, the 2 bolt main blocks are considered a low performance block
Note that 427/390s and 427/400s, both 2 bolt main engines, were redlined at 5,800 rpm from the factory.
Two Bolt main blocks with aftermarket main cap bolts should be good to 550hp. Install aftermarket main studs and that takes you to around 600. The bottom end on a big block is waaaay over-engineered. Unless you're spinning it to the moon, run it hard and enjoy it, it'll handle it.

Random Thoughts and/or things to consider:
-2 bolt or 4 bolt main configuration.
-cylinder wall and water jacket thickness
-reliefs cast into the block for crank clearance
-Compression? Pump Gas/Octane? Redline/Rpm? Cam Specs? Ported Heads? Flow?
-Supercharger? ProCharger? Turbocharger? NOS? (1- or 2- stage?)
-Gear Ratio (Tranny and Transmission)?
-Fuel System?
-etc

-Larry

 

[Drag SGT]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

How fast do you want to go?

Have you seen the tires that are on the back of the truck? :lol:

The first goal is a solid consistent low 10's.

carbed LSx? why on earth would you do that?

If I built it, big honking roots on a tunnel ram

To be different/difficult I suppose? I am my father's son and I like to pay homage to the classic LX series back in the day?

A few ideas...

Swap pistons and put some form of forced induction on any of the above engines.
Wait for the LS3 and give that a try instead of the LS2 with a carburetor
Turbo LS7

That's one of the big things we're taking into consideration. Do we just stick with an all motor vehicle or add a blower/turbo for the extra cost? We decided a long time ago to ditch the fuel injection because wires... well... wires make me angry and I end up cutting things. :rant:

What are you looking for a in motor? 13.75:1 compression is going to require full time race gas. 10.5:1 will run pump gas. Those motors are for completely different routes.

Yes, you would be correct. The second motor is a drag racing only motor that would need to be jetted for E-85 or whatever octane could be found at the airstrip. So technically a bigger pain in the butt. But isn't that why we're Sy/Ty owners? We like the punishment. :rotf:

I'm riding a very fine line, I know. The only street driving this truck would get would be once or twice a week during the weekend and only for a few hours. Other than that, track only.

 

[dgoodhue]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Is the 427 a SB? Are you planning to drive it on the street?

I have no idea, but are their cooling issue with big block and S-10 radiator?

 

[Drag SGT]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Is the 427 a SB? Are you planning to drive it on the street?

I have no idea, but are their cooling issue with big block and S-10 radiator?

Actually, both of the Motown engines are smallblocks and I know the 454 is based off of the GM Pontiac 400 small block. Maybe the 427 is too.

 

[4C FED]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

No Big Block, no care.

 

[12secondSY]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

That's one of the big things we're taking into consideration. Do we just stick with an all motor vehicle or add a blower/turbo for the extra cost? We decided a long time ago to ditch the fuel injection because wires... well... wires make me angry and I end up cutting things. :rant:

Get a custom harness for the LSx engines fuel injection made and its pretty simple. Our TPI camaro is a painless harness and its clean as hell, my dad knew nothing about FI and installed it without a problem. From what Ive heard the LS engines are even more simple.

But if your dead set on a carbureted engine, I like the 427 and the 454. Before getting into syty's and brand new vehicles I wanted the 427 for my 87 blazer since it was street driven(street raced) and I wanted to be able to use pump gas(different 427 than what youve shown, still from the same place). I think that would be pretty cool with a blower on top. Just drop down the CR and get a cam thats more specific to forced induction and I bet that thing would scream. So blown 427 or 454 Id say for what you wanna do. You can always throw a procharger and intercooler on there too so the big blower doesnt stick out of the hood.

Would alky injection work on a setup like that? It would be cool to still use pump gas on something like that and make sick amounts of power.

Got another idea too.... :lol:

 

[Drag SGT]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Haha, I researched that one a long time ago. Too bad that's a 30,000 dollar setup!

 

[Drag SGT]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

No Big Block, no care.

Lmao. I've looked into shoehorning one of those in too. I think the list of how to do it was just as long as the list for Marty's Bed/Cab alignment mini-project. :rotf:

 

[12secondSY]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Haha, I researched that one a long time ago. Too bad that's a 30,000 dollar setup!

Sell the house, buy an engine and put a bed in the garage :tup:

 

[Drag SGT]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Sell the house, buy an engine and put a bed in the garage :tup:

Isn't that everybody's dream?

 

[Aeroking]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

LSX - 6 bolt mains, high revving, Coil packs, and you can make big power with the carb. intake.

 

[jjorgensen52]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

If you want a carb, as I said, tunnel ram and a roots. I would go with the LSx series motor simply because they are super durable and reliable, plus they have massive amounts of go-fast support that's way more advanced than some of the old school stuff

 

[Drag SGT]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

If you want a carb, as I said, tunnel ram and a roots. I would go with the LSx series motor simply because they are super durable and reliable, plus they have massive amounts of go-fast support that's way more advanced than some of the old school stuff

I'm working on finding an equivelent complete carb LSx series motor that has comparable stats to the Motown creations. I've found some long blocks which might have to suffice. I'll be calling the GM performance divison in Milton-Freewater, Oregon soon to see what they can pump out for me.

 

[turbodig]

Re: Which engine would you choose?

Isn't that everybody's dream?

Mine was to have the garage *in* the house, ie, drive in, and there's the kitchen.
It really needs a '57 t-bird to make it work, though.


Do the 427, lower compression, boost-ready carb, boost friendly cam, and a couple of gt42rs.
Ability to make ridiculous amounts of power on race fuel, yet still have something that can run on pump gas and be street driveable.

427 will have a longer rod than the 454, and/or better compression distance on the piston.
Note that there isn't much of a power difference between the 2.

Figure on $6-8k extra for the turbos, intercooler, and related stuff.

I see a fair amount of built-up big-inch S-10s. It's kinda been done to death.
The turbos would be unique.